No Rinse Sterilizer = Sodium Percarbonate, Napisan = Sodium Percarbona

[Drufazz]

Hi All,

I've been trying a no rinse sterilizer lately and notice that it contains sodium percarbonate. I notice that napisan is sodium percarbonate

Am i being misled with this no rinse sanitizer ?

Cheers,

 

[Sammus]

try not to get sterilize and sanitize mixed up. sanitization is killing most of the organisms aka disinfecting, sterilizing is completely 100% removing all living organisms and spores etc as well.

Sodium percarb (napisan, or cheaper and better is coles smart buy nappy cleaner) is a great soaker/cleaner. Its also apparently a disinfectant (after a long soak) - it's definitely not no rinse though, not in the form of nappy cleaner anyway...

do a search on sodium percabonate, many people on this forum seem to be obsessed with it.

 

[Drufazz]

try not to get sterilize and sanitize mixed up. sanitization is killing most of the organisms aka disinfecting, sterilizing is completely 100% removing all living organisms and spores etc as well.

Sodium percarb (napisan, or cheaper and better is coles smart buy nappy cleaner) is a great soaker/cleaner. Its also apparently a disinfectant (after a long soak) - it's definitely not no rinse though, not in the form of nappy cleaner anyway...

do a search on sodium percabonate, many people on this forum seem to be obsessed with it.

Yes i've been reading about it. This stuff is called "No Rinse Sterilizer" .. it says something about it breaking down to leave just oxygen and water. This is what it says on the packet:

Macs
All Malt Brewing

"No Rinse"
Sterilizer

Effectively Sterilizes Everything You Use for Brewing

Contents: Oxygen Activated Mineral Crystals (Sodium Percarbonate)
​

But if it just sodium percarbonate, how is it any different from napisan ?

Cheers,

 

[goatherder]

But if it just sodium percarbonate, how is it any different from napisan ?

napisan has a bunch of other things in it - sodium carbonate (a common washing powder ingredient), surfactants to make it stick to clothes, stuff to protect your washing machine parts, stuff to make it smell nice. Sodium percarbonate is usually only 20-40% of the ingredients list in napisan.

Pure sodium percarbonate breaks down to hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate. The peroxide is good - it does the sanitising and breaks down to oxygen and water. The residual sodium carbonate - the washing powder stuff - is the reason you really need to rinse out after using it.

As Sammus said, there are two parts to brewery cleaning:

1 - cleaning - use a percarbonate based cleaner, napisan is good, avoid the scented products. Rinse afterwards.
2 - sanitising - use a no-rinse sanitiser, like iodophor, or a peroxide based one like Brewshield or Sanitize. Spray these on with a spray bottle and you don't need to rinse.

There are other options but these are tried and tested by a lot of brewers. They don't cost a lot, they are relatively safe to use and they work.

 

[Drufazz]

Pure sodium percarbonate breaks down to hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate. The peroxide is good - it does the sanitising and breaks down to oxygen and water. The residual sodium carbonate - the washing powder stuff - is the reason you really need to rinse out after using it.

But it says "no rinse" ... this is false advertising

2 - sanitising - use a no-rinse sanitiser, like iodophor, or a peroxide based one like Brewshield or Sanitize. Spray these on with a spray bottle and you don't need to rinse.

I really want to use a no rinse solution and our LHBS only has that kind. Anyone recommend a good online HBS ?

Cheers,

 

[Stuster]

Craftbrewer (the sponsor to the left at the top of the page ) is excellent. I'm sure he has some no-rinse stuff. (In fact after a search of his site he does, here.)
No affiliation yada yada yada.

Personally, I use iodophor and there may be another LHBS around that has that. (Are there any dairy/rural suppliers nearby. They may have that or something similar.)

 

[colinm_au]

Craftbrewer (the sponsor to the left at the top of the page ) is excellent. I'm sure he has some no-rinse stuff. (In fact after a search of his site he does, here.)
No affiliation yada yada yada.

Personally, I use iodophor and there may be another LHBS around that has that. (Are there any dairy/rural suppliers nearby. They may have that or something similar.)

Why not use Hydrogen Peroxide !!! This breaks down into water and oxygen ...

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Sodium Percarbonate can be used as a non-rinse sanitizer. The reason it can be classed as non-rinse is because it is non toxic and wont add any flavours and wont affect your beer.

The reason that napi-san contains sodium carbonate is to act as a detergent/surfactant to allow the percarbonate to do a better job.

If you added sodium carbonate to hydrogen peroxide, you would basically have a liquid nappi-san.

Hydrogen Peroxide is a non-rinse as it totally breaks down to water and oxygen.


You can either rinse your napi-san or not rinse it. The choice is yours. Your beer will be ok if you dont. I dont rinse after napi-san because I dont see the point.

Sodium carbonate
Sodium Percarbonate
Hydrogen Peroxide

 

[pint of lager]

Like Sammus said, make sure you understand the difference between a cleaner and a no rinse sanitiser.

A no rinse sanitiser must be used at the correct concentration on an already clean surface.

Many people on this board use napisan as a cleaner. This is at the rate of about 1/3 a cup to a fermenter full of water. At this rate, it needs a lot of rinsing to remove the napisan aroma. Sometimes a kettle of boiling water after thorough rinsing removes the final napisan aroma. Then the equipment is allowed to dry, then stored till the next brew day and is rinsed with a no rinse sanitiser before use.

Some brewkits do have sodium percarbonate (not Napisan) as a no rinse sanitiser. Follow the instructions to the letter.

 

[pokolbinguy]

Where is iodophor available to purchase?

Pok

 

[razz]

LHBS, website sponsors.

 

[brendanos]

I use Sodium Percarbonate to clean/soak/sanitise all of my brewing equipment, rinse well, then sterilise with Iodophor.

I have been interested in switching to another no rinse steriliser product, as Stu mentioned, one used by the dairy industry, called Defender. It is a low foam acid based steriliser, very similar to the american product Star San, which is endorsed by american homebrewers and mentioned in texts (ie how to brew) as a colourless odourless no rinse sanitiser. Very low contact time (some sources say 30 seconds) which is great for the impatient homebrewer. From my investigations it will cost you about half as much as Star San, though dilution is recommended at about twice the rate. I guess it depends on where you're buying it from/whose instructions you're reading.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

One of the problems with Napi-San is that not all Napi-Sans are the same . Some are scented, some contain Enzymes.

You dont want either of these types.

"No affiliation whatsoeve or biased opinion"

The best ones I have found are Woolies "Home Brand" and Aldi "Di-san"

Di-San is by far the cheapest and contains no stuff in it that is not required

A local cleaning manufacturer also supplies a napi-cleaner that is pure 70% sodium carbonate & 30% sodium percarbonate. Unfortunatly it is $10kg...

 

[kook]

One of the problems with Napi-San is that not all Napi-Sans are the same . Some are scented, some contain Enzymes.

The best ones I have found are Woolies "Home Brand" and Aldi "Di-san"

Di-San is by far the cheapest and contains no stuff in it that is not required

Are you confident that these products really don't contain anything other than sodium percarbonate & sodium carbonate?

I was always under the impression there were additional fillers, and it was questionable as to whether these are food safe, and whether they may influence the finished beer.

Personally, I ensure to rinse any supermarket percarbonate based cleaners very well as I'm not confident in the fact that these are purely sodium percarbonate / sodium carbonate.

 

[Guest Lurker]

Why is everyone so against scented napisan? If you are rinsing the stuff out, then its easier to know when you have completely rinsed the scented stuff than the non scented.

 

[Sammus]

I'm not against it! I scored a 25kg bag if pure sodium percarb for $60 though so I dont have to worry about it - i still rinse anyway, I don't like the soapy slippery feeling left behind, it freaks me out

 

[goatherder]

Why is everyone so against scented napisan? If you are rinsing the stuff out, then its easier to know when you have completely rinsed the scented stuff than the non scented.

I once soaked a plastic fermenter in a scented napisan product to remove a stubborn yeast ring. The plastic absorbed the smell and tainted a robust porter. Bleach, leaving in the sun etc didn't remove the smell from the fermenter. Once bitten I suppose, I only use unscented products now. For what it's worth, the product I use is Napisan Babycare. It's a little expensive but it's the only unscented product I can find locally.

 

[Barramundi]

for stubborn stains i use caustic soda , about 40 grams of powder to a 30 litre fermenter filled to the brim , brings it up like brand new again....

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Are you confident that these products really don't contain anything other than sodium percarbonate & sodium carbonate?

I was always under the impression there were additional fillers, and it was questionable as to whether these are food safe, and whether they may influence the finished beer.

Personally, I ensure to rinse any supermarket percarbonate based cleaners very well as I'm not confident in the fact that these are purely sodium percarbonate / sodium carbonate.

Get hold of an MSDS ( Material Safety data Sheet ). It will tell you exactly what is in it.It has to by law

 

[kook]

Get hold of an MSDS ( Material Safety data Sheet ). It will tell you exactly what is in it.It has to by law

Thats just confirmed my thoughts.

Napisan BabyCare:

Sodium Percarbonate 25.7 %
Sodium Silicate < 10 %
Anionic Surfactant < 10%
Sodium Carbonate 30-60%
"Other Ingredients classified as non-hazardous" to 100%

Nothing seems terribly bad if you're rinsing, but I'm not sure that you really want it left in your beer.