No Rinse Sanitisers

[Yob]

Gday all, Now I dont know about the rest of you but I always worry that I havnt cleaned enough (Perhaps being a newbi adds a little paranoia ).. I always clean immediatly after use and store in orig. box... but can someone suggest a good no rinse sanitiser??.. its not that I dont have enough gear already or anything stupid like that... I even have a steam jet thingy for doing the threads on the tap, lid and the seal... etc.

Its just that one final step of ensuring a successful brew and eliminating the possibility of onfection I guess..

I got given a beer tree set for chrissie... (cost me $75) with a bottle rinse squirty thing on top for sanitising bottles and it came with some brewcraft sanitiser that suggests a 30ml in 1Lt spraygun type approach.. some of the chemicals there have me a touch concerned.. such as hydrogen peroxide 3% and silver ions?? good lord really? Were all OK with this?

Happy New Year To All

:beer:

 

[Gavo]

Two words, "Star San" no rinse and reusable. See above sponsors.

Gavo.

 

[Yob]

This brew craft stuff then would need to be rinsed off then??... what with all types of chemicals tec...

 

[manticle]

For ages I was using sodium metabisulphite and also used bleach/vinegar a few times. Having recently changed to saniclean (same company and very similar product to starsan) I can recommend either that or star-san. Easy to use, re-usable, no rinse, no taste, quick and economical.

 

[Gavo]

I have never used the brewcraft sanitizer so can't advise anything but do what do the instructions say. If it says to rinse then you need to rinse, if it says it is a no rinse then just drain well. The problem with rinsing is that you are introducing non sanitised water unless you have first sanitised the water in some way.

Gavo.

 

[Gout]

For ages I was using sodium metabisulphite and also used bleach/vinegar a few times. Having recently changed to saniclean (same company and very similar product to starsan) I can recommend either that or star-san. Easy to use, re-usable, no rinse, no taste, quick and economical.

+1, i use both of these also and think its so easy to use. A spray bottle with a mix in it, is awesome in the brewery, as its ready to use when you just need to clean something small and can not be arsed making a batch. things like fermenter taps before using and airlocks

it will last you ages
( i use starsan more than saniclean just because with the foaming it hangs on the parts a bit longer - both however should work)

 

[mauriceatron]

I've mostly used Iodophor but I've also used The Country Brewer's Liquid Sanitiser (phosphoric acid) a couple of times. Both are excellent and work well when mixed to the right amounts. I will be switching to Star San though for when my current bottle of Iodophor runs out. No particular reason, "just because I can" I guess. It's got the name, the recognised quality and it's just as cheap as Iodophor.

The only thing in the liquid sanitisers that I think is a bit expensive is Sanitize which I think is a Morgan's product. Compared to anything else commonly used by home brewers, it's quite expensive and the other products do the job just as well.

Anything your local home brew store sells as a no rinse sanitiser will be fine I think - another good reason to go give them a visit. If you don't have a LHBS, Star San or Iodophor form a site sponsor will do you fine. Just remember to take care to mix to the right concentration, don't use a heavy hand when mixing. Using too much of any liquid no rinse product may leave a taste or, iirc, may not even work.

 

[Bribie G]

Starsan lasts for ages and ages. Also because it's based on phosphates it is a yeast nutrient. After swishing out my fermenters etc with starsan solution I tip it around the veg garden and the plants go berserk.

The perfect cleaner is sodium percarbonate (the active ingredient in Napisan). I usually soak stuff in perc first, then rinse twice, then starsan.

 

[Gout]

mauriceatron, you raise a good point.

what do starsan users recomend as the dilution rate be?
I use 1.6ml/Lt ( no idea why because i think i converted the imperial to metric) in a spray bottle

Slightly less when i pump it through my herms/mash/boiler before a brew (as i use PBW before hand) and they both get a much longer contact time

 

[rclemmett]

I have been using, and can recommend, liquid sanitiser from the Country Brewer. I've been using it for about two years now and have only used about two-thirds of a one litre bottle.

Its based on Phospheric acid... approx 10%... Dilute 10ml to 1 litre


http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/category68_1.htm

 

[roverfj1200]

Funny thing here is I am moving away from using sanitizers to just using hot tap water to rinse and clean....

I will probably cop an infection soon.. but have bottled around 100 this way ( and drank) and all good so far...

 

[Gout]

Funny thing here is I am moving away from using sanitizers to just using hot tap water to rinse and clean....

I will probably cop an infection soon.. but have bottled around 100 this way ( and drank) and all good so far...

Whys that mate? i find the no rinse safer(burns), more effective(less contact time) and i would think maybe about the same cost (with a kettle to boil all the time)

however i dont bottle, i keg and normally 50Lt a time so i can swap the starsan from keg to keg and then wash my brewery

 

[Yob]

I guess what im trying to do is nail down a proceedure and get things into a better formed,less laborious habbit... The typical newbi strugglel I guess...

From the very helpful posts so far it does indeed that NRS seem to be the way to go... questions however arise..

If this starsan type sanitiser is a re-usable type of thing, should I have maybe a 10Lt Cube to store a pre-mixed quantity with?... or something like this that I can then also re-use in my bottle rinser?

Do these no rinse sanitisers require a dry time or can I bottle right after sanitising my bottles?

For example.. My brew is in Fridge out back... Rinse bottles and put on tree inside house.. Move Fermenter to botteling area (Spare room) and proceed to bottle or should there say be a lag time for the no rinse to dry?

Is there considerations of negative taste being added? I would assume not or these things would not be popular!

Cheers all and thanx for the superb advise. :icon_cheers:

 

[Gavo]

I tend to mix 5lt at a time and reuse that as I have a 5lt container to store in can't see a problem with a 10 lt apart from I never use that much at one time. As for draining when bottling or kegging or whatever else, I just sanitise, drain and fill, no waiting time or complaints here.

Gavo.

 

[Gout]

If this starsan type sanitiser is a re-usable type of thing, should I have maybe a 10Lt Cube to store a pre-mixed quantity with?... or something like this that I can then also re-use in my bottle rinser?

Do these no rinse sanitisers require a dry time or can I bottle right after sanitising my bottles?

For example.. My brew is in Fridge out back... Rinse bottles and put on tree inside house.. Move Fermenter to botteling area (Spare room) and proceed to bottle or should there say be a lag time for the no rinse to dry?

Is there considerations of negative taste being added? I would assume not or these things would not be popular!

Cheers all and thanx for the superb advise. :icon_cheers:

re-use - yes but they go "off" over time and if soiled. I basicly mix a few Lt of it (only 3ml of starsan) and swish in a clean fermenter, let it sit a min do it again a few times and it should be more than enough. I then tip it into my second fermenter and do the same. As they are clean already, the liquid is still basicly good to keep on using on the brew day.

I tip it after brew day ( for the tiny cost its not worth the effort to store i think).

The spray bottle i keep in the fridge and use on brew days, it dont keep it for months as it does go off with normal tap water i think. ( not sure here)

no rinse dry times - I think its best to use the bottles while they are wet ( once they have their 2 min to kill bugs)

taste - there is not ment to be any at the correct mixing rate.

 

[Yob]

This might be kind of off topic but Ive only used the "spring water" from coles to brew with as I dont really trust tap water quality with the melbourne storages so low, is there anything wrong with this?

However the cleaning water has always been with tap water naturally...

 

[Gout]

I think melbourne water is rather good you will find. I have never used spring water so cant comment.

you could filter the water - cheaper than buying it. However i think you will be fine with the melb supply(if mains).

 

[Rodolphe01]

I've used the brewcraft stuff, it is a no rinse and it works fine. the hydogen peroxide (H2O2) decomposes to water (H2O) and oxygen gas (O2) so it isn't residual, silver ions are used in loads of things as an antimicrobial agent and i'm pretty sure it is safe to consume in the quantities that would be left after using the sanitiser as per the directions.

Not the greatest referrence, but quick to find, wikipedia says "Silver ions and silver compounds show a toxic effect on some bacteria, viruses, algae and fungi, typical for heavy metals like lead or mercury, but without the high toxicity to humans that are normally associated with these other metals."

Edit: I don't use the stuff anymore though, it works out to about 30x more expensive than iodophor which is what I use now.

 

[bcp]

This is my research on these two:
Iodophor has been used in the dairy industry for 60-70 years. It only requires 12.5 parts/million to be effective (ie, 1 in 80,000, which is like one person in the mcg). More than that will start to leave residue (which would kill a few yeast cells), but the residue wouldn't be harmful unless you used massive over-concentration. It only requires 2 minutes of wet time to be effective, which may include the time it's drying. It doesn't matter if they're still wet. This level of concentration of iodine is completely harmless, and cannot be tasted.

Starsan was developed to sanitise milk trucks. It only requires 30 seconds to be effective as a sanitiser. It says 2 minutes on the label because the EPA test is always for 2 minutes. Once the pH changes above 3.5, it is no longer dangerous (or effective), and in fact becomes bacterial food. All the ingredients for starsan are used in foods. For instance, the main ingredient - phosphoric acid - is in soft drinks like coke.

Rinsing of either of these products may undo your sanitisation - unless your water is sterilised. Using higher concentrations than recommended doesn't increase their effectiveness.

Open to correction.

 

[manticle]

re-use - yes but they go "off" over time and if soiled. I basicly mix a few Lt of it (only 3ml of starsan) and swish in a clean fermenter, let it sit a min do it again a few times and it should be more than enough. I then tip it into my second fermenter and do the same. As they are clean already, the liquid is still basicly good to keep on using on the brew day.

I tip it after brew day ( for the tiny cost its not worth the effort to store i think).

The spray bottle i keep in the fridge and use on brew days, it dont keep it for months as it does go off with normal tap water i think. ( not sure here)

no rinse dry times - I think its best to use the bottles while they are wet ( once they have their 2 min to kill bugs)

taste - there is not ment to be any at the correct mixing rate.

I do a similar thing. Clean with woolworths oxygen bleach (36% sodium percarbonate, biodegradeable, cheap and unscented) and hot water.

Rinse well - all the rinse water goes on the herb/vege/hop garden

I use 1 mL per litre water of saniclean which I syringe into the fermenter (usually 5 litres water). Give it a good shake so everything inside is completely coated (new tap, o-ring, any transfer hoses, airlock etc). This is then transferred into any other fermenter or container. If it's not used again within a day or so it goes on the aforementioned garden. The instructions suggest 3 minutes contact time so after about 5 minutes I'm usually good to go although the whole thing might be left for half an hour or so.

Definitely no perceptible taste in either bottles or hydrometer samples.

Any process you work out should just become standard and as mentioned above - don't be tempted to alter the suggested concentration of the sanitiser.

This sanitiser is also far more cost effective than the sodium met I was using (yes I'm a convert) although I will occasionally does everything with sodium met, rinse and then go again with saniclean just to keep the bugs from getting complacent.