No Chillin I Have Seen The Light

[Paul H]

Well after an extended lay off from brewing I jumped back into the fray last night & due to time constraints I thought WTF let's try this no chill thing. Well f&%k me dead if that's not the ducks nuts in terms of convenience I'm not here. Who is the pioneer of this technique & why hasn't he (yes I said he for all those angry women out there) received an order of Australia?

Next thing you know people will be brewing beer using items found the home such as pillowcases

:icon_cheers:

Paul

 

[Bribie G]

Paul, it will surprise you to know that I invented No-chilling. I would have invented it earlier but my time was taken up, in those days, by inventing Email and later my groundbreaking invention of wi-fi.

I don't really expect the order of Australia. Hey that pillowcase sounds interesting, tell me more


One trick with no chill is to do your last hop addition in a stockpot with some wort from the cooled cube and then rapidly chill the stockpot and pour the entire lot into the fermenter. That way you preserve hop flavour and aroma that can get a bit "stewed" if the hops end up in the hot cube. No I didn't invent that, Argon (BABBs member) did. See your'e surrounded by famous people :beer:

 

[Bretto77]

Hi Paul,
great to hear this works for you. I can see that it may be great for low hopped & darker beers (ie non-lager), however I still have great sceptism that the DMS issues mostly found in lagers and changes in hop utilisation especially on late or flame out hops. Also may be that the amount of break material from kettle finning may be not a good, not sure? I have a few concerns as to what this process would have on the quality of the beer basically. I'm open to changes in my process that will improve the quality of my beer, so happy to hear from the pro no chill crowd as to why this is better not just easier.

Cheers
Brett

Well after an extended lay off from brewing I jumped back into the fray last night & due to time constraints I thought WTF let's try this no chill thing. Well f&%k me dead if that's not the ducks nuts in terms of convenience I'm not here. Who is the pioneer of this technique & why hasn't he (yes I said he for all those angry women out there) received an order of Australia
Next thing you know people will be brewing beer using items found the home such as pillowcases

:icon_cheers:

Paul

 

[chunckious]

One trick with no chill is to do your last hop addition in a stockpot with some wort from the cooled cube and then rapidly chill the stockpot and pour the entire lot into the fermenter. That way you preserve hop flavour and aroma that can get a bit "stewed" if the hops end up in the hot cube. No I didn't invent that, Argon (BABBs member) did. See your'e surrounded by famous people :beer:

So bribie, do you let the cube totally cool (no-chill), then boil some wort (couple of litres/how long?), then rapid chill.
Thanks for the drum.

 

[DJR]

I was a no-chiller for about 50+ batches as i couldn't afford a chiller initially and the results were fine with plenty of awards won for no-chill beers (even for beers that would have exhibited DMS if present eg Kolsch ) - now i have an immersion chiller and use that (have done 2 batches with it) as I think it's just a bit easier honestly as the brew is all done and in the fermenter same day and i don't get the "stewed hops" thing.

DMS - not really a problem as long as you are doing a decent boil of 60+ minutes although i never really used the Weyermann lager malts that have SMM, just JW usually and that has virtually no SMM. With the euro lager malts it could present a problem but didn't use them that much personally.

Hops - the effect of the cube increases the isomerisation of the hops left in the cube and therefore the bitterness, definitely. A good whirlpool with kettle finings helps keep the hop material out but the alpha acid is already partially dissolved, the amount of hops needs to be decreased a bit to compensate. It is hard to get the whirlpool hop flavour out like a chiller can do but there are ways around it (dry hop, partial boils, cube hop, hop essences, hopback between kettle and cube)

Kettle fining - you should whirlpool and leave the wort to settle and cool slightly before cubing it up, usually the wort is about 80-85C when i run it in which is more than enough to pasteurise the cube but also allows the trub cone to form in the kettle before running it out - cold break is formed in the cube and if you are careful you can leave most of it in the cube when pouring it into the fermenter. Using a CFC or plate chiller you will get the cold break in your fermenter, so in some ways its better at leaving the break/trub out.

 

[Bribie G]

Hi Paul,
great to hear this works for you. I can see that it may be great for low hopped & darker beers (ie non-lager), however I still have great sceptism that the DMS issues mostly found in lagers and changes in hop utilisation especially on late or flame out hops. Also may be that the amount of break material from kettle finning may be not a good, not sure? I have a few concerns as to what this process would have on the quality of the beer basically. I'm open to changes in my process that will improve the quality of my beer, so happy to hear from the pro no chill crowd as to why this is better not just easier.

Cheers
Brett

Brett, to rehash a couple of old threads on the subject (and why not - no chill hasn't been talked about a lot lately) :

Break material. The hot break is allowed to settle / gets whirlpooled in exactly the same way whatever the method of chilling used. With no chilling you can just as easily ensure that the stuff into the cube is crystal clear from the first drop as you can with flash chilling.
Cold break ends up in the collecting vessel no matter what method is used. With flash chilling you get the break there and then, with no chilling it develops overnight or quicker if you toss the cube in the horse trough whatever. Jamil says that you must flash chill to achieve the cold break. Bullshit, sorry Jamil but this is something you really need to get current with.

In any case cold break is harmless and very quickly falls out into the bottom of the fermenter as a neutral material (I did an experiment / taste test at BABBs last year, won't bore you with the details)

DMS - never experienced it

Flavour / Aroma - do your last additions "post cube" before you pitch and you should achieve almost identical results to flash chilling. In fact by rapid chilling the stockpot (see my above post) you are getting the best of both worlds. :icon_cheers:

 

[goomboogo]

Well after an extended lay off from brewing I jumped back into the fray last night & due to time constraints I thought WTF let's try this no chill thing. Well f&%k me dead if that's not the ducks nuts in terms of convenience I'm not here. Who is the pioneer of this technique & why hasn't he (yes I said he for all those angry women out there) received an order of Australia?

Next thing you know people will be brewing beer using items found the home such as pillowcases

:icon_cheers:

Paul

Yeah, but what about botulism? That one is for you Darren; I'm sure you're still watching.

 

[Paul H]

Hi Paul,
great to hear this works for you. I can see that it may be great for low hopped & darker beers (ie non-lager), however I still have great sceptism that the DMS issues mostly found in lagers and changes in hop utilisation especially on late or flame out hops. Also may be that the amount of break material from kettle finning may be not a good, not sure? I have a few concerns as to what this process would have on the quality of the beer basically. I'm open to changes in my process that will improve the quality of my beer, so happy to hear from the pro no chill crowd as to why this is better not just easier.

Cheers
Brett

Brett I too am regarded as a sceptic however all the evidence provided by guys like Browndog, Bribie & Dave Clarke seems to indicate that this method is every bit as effective as chillin.

:icon_cheers:

Paul

 

[argon]

So bribie, do you let the cube totally cool (no-chill), then boil some wort (couple of litres/how long?), then rapid chill.
Thanks for the drum.

This is one way of doing it... Late Hopping And No Chilling Guide

 

[Zizzle]

I thought Darren invented No-Chill?

 

[Effect]

Paul, it will surprise you to know that I invented No-chilling. I would have invented it earlier but my time was taken up, in those days, by inventing Email and later my groundbreaking invention of wi-fi.

Now now, Bribie...Let's be honest now. You didn't invent Email. It was just a natural evolution that occured after you invented the internet.

 

[Ross]

Well after an extended lay off from brewing I jumped back into the fray last night & due to time constraints I thought WTF let's try this no chill thing. Well f&%k me dead if that's not the ducks nuts in terms of convenience I'm not here. Who is the pioneer of this technique & why hasn't he (yes I said he for all those angry women out there) received an order of Australia?


:icon_cheers:

Paul

Paul, I think you'll find it was Ray Mills down in Wollongong that first started to get this technique recognised. He was having problems with the local fauna infecting his brews with wild yeast & used the "no chill" method to get around the problem.

Cheers Ross

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I know of a micro over here that was probably the first to use this method commercially , dont know they invented it I think it has just been around for a long time.
"Hmm thats a bit hot , I think I will stick it in a container and let it cool down"
"No Chill" the term used now is another story , who coined the phrase ? Briby ? Yes but he invented the wheel too. :icon_cheers:

Nev
GB

 

[QldKev]

The term 'no-chill' was used even before Bribie was a member on here, so I'm guessing he didn't come up with it or name it

Dec 7 2007

Jan 07

Nov 22 2006

Mar 17 2006
Funny thing is he was also brewing in a 20L pot. Although Nick JD was the one who made it popular.

QldKev

edit added link

I'm on a mission now to find the oldest post to see who came up with it

 

[bum]

The term 'no-chill' was used even before Bribie was a member on here, so I'm guessing he didn't come up with it or name it

He did invent email though, right?

 

[QldKev]

He did invent email though, right?

I invented the Internet, but just then I searched for 'google' from google and now I have broken it!

QldKev

 

[big78sam]

I'm on a mission now to find the oldest post to see who came up with it

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...hill++Ray_Mills

Who is this Ray fellow? Must be Bribie's previous user name...

 

[Paul H]

"The 15 minutes gave me the cold break. The wort was transfered hot into the drum. The same way ESB wort kits are made."

So it appears that ESB started it. Perhaps someone from ESB can share?

:icon_cheers:

Paul

 

[goomboogo]

He did invent email though, right?

Yes, that's how he originally tracked people for the government. He has since progressed to mobile phone shopping applications. I await future developments.

 

[user 384]

Mar 17 2006
Funny thing is he was also brewing in a 20L pot. Although Nick JD was the one who made it popular.

Well everything old is new again. I mentioned in that original post (long ago) that many people would have no chilled at some stage in their early brewing ventures. Plate chillers, CFC, or even immersion chillers were much harder to obtain in the earlier days of AG brewing in Australia. As such a lot of brewers just did whatever they could, which meant many would have no chilled but just not put a name to it. Ray Mills was different as he made a deliberate decision to switch from chilling to no-chill, so could be seen as the original no-chiller (but even Ray referenced that places like ESB were no-chilling when making their fresh-wort kits).


Off-Topic Warning
BIAB is another example. You hear stories of guys using whatever they could to replicate a mash tun. Some guys used the bucket in bucket approach (I think Jayse started this way). For my first couple of AG mashes I had an esky with no tap or other way to separate the wort from the grain bed, so I just lined the esky with a pillow case. After an hour's sach rest I simply lifted the pillow case out of the esky and let it drain. Next I tipped the wort from the esky into a pot for the boil. It was BIAB, I just didn't know it and I only did it because I didn't have any other way of mashing. After a few brews this way I scrounged a small cylindrical cooler "Daddy Cool" brand and ripped apart a kitchen sieve to make wire sausage and attached this on the inside to the bulkhead with a hose clamp. GMK and Wee Stu started mashing with similar set-ups.

It was only with guys like Ross, that AG brewers were able to readily purchase pre-fabricated equipment at good prices. Don't get me started on what we used to pay for temperature control components!

Cheers
MAH