No Chill

[milob40]

might be barking up the wrong tree here but if i'm not then this has solved my problem with overbittering in my 1st extract .
with no chill , will the hops added at 60 min become more bitter because of the wort gradually cooling over a longer period?
will chilling stop the bittering process like when you cook a mud crab, you put it in an ice slurry to stop the cooking process.
sorry if this is a dumm question, just trying to edumacate myself more betterer.
thank you in advance for your time and tolerance

 

[felten]

For just a 60 minute addition the extra bittering would be very minimal. At 60 mins you've already extracted most of the IBUs you're going to get, and it plateaus off from there.

Later flavour/aroma editions might suffer from extra bitterness though, depends who you ask.

 

[Midnight Brew]

might be barking up the wrong tree here but if i'm not then this has solved my problem with overbittering in my 1st extract .
with no chill , will the hops added at 60 min become more bitter because of the wort gradually cooling over a longer period?
will chilling stop the bittering process like when you cook a mud crab, you put it in an ice slurry to stop the cooking process.
sorry if this is a dumm question, just trying to edumacate myself more betterer.
thank you in advance for your time and tolerance

G-day,

When no chilling most brewers use the first 60minute addition somewhere between 40-50 minutes. Here is an example of a chart on another thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=46210 at post 10. There is also alot of great info in this thread.

Cheers

 

[milob40]

G-day,

When no chilling most brewers use the first 60minute addition somewhere between 40-50 minutes. Here is an example of a chart on another thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=46210 at post 10. There is also alot of great info in this thread.

Cheers

cheers so as i thought, i should cut the 60 min to 50, i did notice more bitterness than hoppiness so other than getting my sg wrong.....
just nice to work out where i stuffed it up, will try a proper chill to see what difference it makes. thanks

 

[bum]

cheers so as i thought, i should cut the 60 min to 50, i did notice more bitterness than hoppiness so other than getting my sg wrong.....
just nice to work out where i stuffed it up, will try a proper chill to see what difference it makes. thanks

May I ask if you had any hop additions later than the 60 minute bittering addition? As felten suggests above, no-chilling's effect on late additions are possibly more likely to have a dramatic effect on bitterness than it does on 60 min additions. Not saying it has no effect, of course, but I would say the difference is minimal when compared to the difference it has on late additions.

 

[tavas]

Agree with Bum. I find the 60 minute addition is minimal, it's anything addedd from 0-30 minutes that I have to adjust. I treat no chill as equivalent to an additional 15 minutes, so i adjust accordingly i.e. a 30 minute addition would now become 15 minutes. Anything less than 15 minutes becomes 0 minutes or flameout. So far has worked pretty well for me.

Haven't done cube hopping yet so can't help with that one, but judicious use of search should help out.

 

[Ash in Perth]

Yep, bum seems to know his $#!╥

I wouldn't worry too much about the increase a-acid isomerisation from a no chill brew. There would be a bigger bitterness difference between a vigorous boil and a gentle boil than there would between a non-chill and a quick chilled wort.

I'm not a no-chiller but I wonder about the impact on late hop additions. How quickly does your wort temp drop off?

 

[bum]

Yep, bum seems to know his $#!╥

Nah, just relating my experience. Much better people to listen to than me.

Although I am right, naturally.

 

[ekul]

might be barking up the wrong tree here but if i'm not then this has solved my problem with overbittering in my 1st extract .
with no chill , will the hops added at 60 min become more bitter because of the wort gradually cooling over a longer period?
will chilling stop the bittering process like when you cook a mud crab, you put it in an ice slurry to stop the cooking process.
sorry if this is a dumm question, just trying to edumacate myself more betterer.
thank you in advance for your time and tolerance

If i understand this correctly you are nochilling extract beers? Why is this? Personally i think that nochilling an extract beer would make the process longer, rather than shorter/more convenient. Unless you're using a really big pot and making up several batches at once, then i spose it would save some time.

Personally, i find that a 60 min addition doesn't really get more bitter whether you chill or nochill (and i've done both). In fact i've had beers (which only have one hop addition) and i've undershot the gravity. An extra 20 mins boiling (with nochill on top of this) doesn't affect the bitterness at all. This would be completely different if there were flavour/aroma hops, but in beers that only have bittering additions it seems to be fine, makes the beer a little darker though.

 

[Malted]

There would be a bigger bitterness difference between a vigorous boil and a gentle boil than there would between a non-chill and a quick chilled wort.

Now this is interesting, I'd like to know more. There will be a difference in utilisation between a vigorous and gentle boil? No pisstake, I am seriously interested.

 

[bum]

I read it as hyperbole indicating how little difference the poster believes no-chilling makes to IBU in the finished beer. Having made decent AIPAs that are solely cube hopped I disagree with that suggestion rather strongly though.

 

[Malted]

Personally, i find that a 60 min addition doesn't really get more bitter whether you chill or nochill (and i've done both).

That figures as there is stuff all further utilisation after 60 mins.
Example: bugger all difference in IBU's between 60 & 90 minutes of boiling but certainly a lot more difference between 30 and 60 minutes.
See this chart http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry787089

 

[Ash in Perth]

Now this is interesting, I'd like to know more. There will be a difference in utilisation between a vigorous and gentle boil? No pisstake, I am seriously interested.

There is not a whole lot of information to be found on the topic. The idea is that a more vigorous boil increases the movement within the kettle through convection currents and more substantially, the physical movement of steam bubbling through the wort. This is sort of the same idea as stirring sugar (eg. into a coffee to dissolve it faster) as well as the increased contact with isomerisation catalysts like Ca2+.

 

[bum]

Seems like I read it wrong. My apologies, Ash.

Malted's call for some detailed info from anyone is seconded.

 

[Ash in Perth]

I read it as hyperbole indicating how little difference the poster believes no-chilling makes to IBU in the finished beer. Having made decent AIPAs that are solely cube hopped I disagree with that suggestion rather strongly though.

Seems like I read it wrong. My apologies, Ash.

Malted's call for some detailed info from anyone is seconded.

No need to apologize mate, I meant it both ways. The difference in isomerisation between a gentle and vigorous boil would probably not be huge which is why I picked it as a comparison.. However, there is a difference

 

[bum]

There is not a whole lot of information to be found on the topic. The idea is that a more vigorous boil increases the movement within the kettle through convection currents and more substantially, the physical movement of steam bubbling through the wort.

Just having a bit of think about this one and I can only see it working in any significant fashion in the opposite direction - that is, if you restrained the hops (such as in a tightly packed hop sock) you'd get less out of them.

But I should point out that I've never claimed to be the scientifical type.

[EDIT: my typing is drunk]

 

[Ash in Perth]

Also, the reason I quoted you in the first place when others were saying the same thing you were was so I could post that immature pun...

 

[Ash in Perth]

Just having a bit of think about this one and I can only see it working in any significant fashion in the opposite direction - that is, if you restrained the hops (such as in a tightly packed hop sock) you'd get less out of them.

Yep, you are quite right mate.

 

[Malted]

There is not a whole lot of information to be found on the topic. The idea is that a more vigorous boil increases the movement within the kettle through convection currents and more substantially, the physical movement of steam bubbling through the wort. This is sort of the same idea as stirring sugar (eg. into a coffee to dissolve it faster) as well as the increased contact with isomerisation catalysts like Ca2+.

Ok to play devil's advocate then (for the sake of interest). This would seem to be more about the efficiency or perhaps speed of utilisation then?
So in theory, to pull numbers from a hat, a rapid boil of 40 minutes could get the same utilisation as that of a gentle 60 minute boil? But given that there is bugger all extra utilisation after 60 minutes, then both a rapid and gentle boil would have a similar IBU rating after 60 minutes?

To go to the coffee analogy: wouldn't an unstirred cup of coffee will have its sugar just as dissolved as a stirred one, if they are both left on the bench for a period of time (on the premise that they don't cool too quickly)?

 

[bum]

Also, the reason I quoted you in the first place when others were saying the same thing you were was so I could post that immature pun...

I am genuinely alarmed that I missed that. I choose to blame your dazzling typography.