No Chill - astringency help

[chesl73]

Hi no-chillers

I've brewed many times before but never done no chill. I bought a cube the other week and 9 days ago I did an Amber Ale with no chill for the first time. The recipe required some 5 min hop additions so because of no chill I decided to hold them off and just throw them into the cube 15 mins after flame out when I transferred the wort into the cube.
I checked the SG about 4 days ago and I seem to recall have a little taste and it tasted fine.
3 days ago as part of a dry hop schedule I put 60g of Galaxy hops directly into the cube (batch size 19L).
I've just checked today my gravity and I'm about my FG (1.015). The beer smells good from the dry hops but when I taste it, I get this taste that arrives late on which I would describe as a harshness, almost that classic description of sucking on a tea bag. I'm also reminded of when you get a bad coffee and there's a harshness to the coffee, a bit like that.
Any thoughts as to what might have caused this? I'm thinking it could be:
- The dark grains being mashed rather than steeped?
- The hops in at flameout and left directly in the wort for 10 days?
- The dry hops (although only been in for 3 days)

And the important question - any thoughts on whether the beer can be saved?

Cheers

Edit: Just to be clear, I no chilled in the cube then I fermented in the cube as well.

 

[micka80]

I tried cube hopping for a bit and found it sometimes was harsh with no real hop presence. I now pull the hops out after a 15 min whirpool, way better.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Hi no-chillers

I've brewed many times before but never done no chill. I bought a cube the other week and 9 days ago I did an Amber Ale with no chill for the first time. The recipe required some 5 min hop additions so because of no chill I decided to hold them off and just throw them into the cube 15 mins after flame out when I transferred the wort into the cube.
I checked the SG about 4 days ago and I seem to recall have a little taste and it tasted fine.
3 days ago as part of a dry hop schedule I put 60g of Galaxy hops directly into the cube (batch size 19L).
I've just checked today my gravity and I'm about my FG (1.015). The beer smells good from the dry hops but when I taste it, I get this taste that arrives late on which I would describe as a harshness, almost that classic description of sucking on a tea bag. I'm also reminded of when you get a bad coffee and there's a harshness to the coffee, a bit like that.
Any thoughts as to what might have caused this? I'm thinking it could be:
- The dark grains being mashed rather than steeped?
- The hops in at flameout and left directly in the wort for 10 days?
- The dry hops (although only been in for 3 days)

And the important question - any thoughts on whether the beer can be saved?

Cheers
Edit: Just to be clear, I no chilled in the cube then I fermented in the cube as well.

Astringency I would say is the cause, you can get it from the hops and the dark grain, I cold steep dark grain for a milk or oatmeal stout but enjoy the astringency from including the dark grain in the mash for a dry Irish stout. As for the hopping in a no chill I have found it best to use the Argon method, or do as you did flameout but wait a while before putting that particular charge in then immediately drain.
Google Argon method AHB.

 

[fungrel]

15min left in boil is my last no chill addition for these reasons. I may be more sensitive to it than others but I just don't like it. I make up for it with multiple (and usually very large) dry hop additions.

 

[Wobbly74]

I don't suffer from astringency in my cube hopped beers, but generally drop the wort into them at 80C. What I do notice is astringency from dry hop still in suspension which settles out once the beer is cold crashed and finned.

 

[chesl73]

I don't suffer from astringency in my cube hopped beers, but generally drop the wort into them at 80C. What I do notice is astringency from dry hop still in suspension which settles out once the beer is cold crashed and finned.

Ah, that's good to hear. Maybe it's the dry hop in suspension. I've already started the cold crash and will rack the beer out of the cube and see how it is from there. Never had this before though so it's new to me. Having said that I do normally dry hop in a bag.

 

[goatchop41]

No chill doesn't cause astringency, there's no basis for it to.
You also mentioned that an earlier gravity sample was fine. If no chilling was the cause, it would have been there at that time too

 

[YAPN]

Hi no-chillers

I've brewed many times before but never done no chill. I bought a cube the other week and 9 days ago I did an Amber Ale with no chill for the first time. The recipe required some 5 min hop additions so because of no chill I decided to hold them off and just throw them into the cube 15 mins after flame out when I transferred the wort into the cube.
I checked the SG about 4 days ago and I seem to recall have a little taste and it tasted fine.
3 days ago as part of a dry hop schedule I put 60g of Galaxy hops directly into the cube (batch size 19L).
I've just checked today my gravity and I'm about my FG (1.015). The beer smells good from the dry hops but when I taste it, I get this taste that arrives late on which I would describe as a harshness, almost that classic description of sucking on a tea bag. I'm also reminded of when you get a bad coffee and there's a harshness to the coffee, a bit like that.
Any thoughts as to what might have caused this? I'm thinking it could be:
- The dark grains being mashed rather than steeped?
- The hops in at flameout and left directly in the wort for 10 days?
- The dry hops (although only been in for 3 days)

And the important question - any thoughts on whether the beer can be saved?

Cheers

Edit: Just to be clear, I no chilled in the cube then I fermented in the cube as well.

I guess you probably had this covered but it's worth asking...How did you clean the cube before using it?

 

[chesl73]

It was a brand new cube. A soak in sodium perc, a rinse out and then a dose of starsan.

 

[Rocker1986]

I agree with goatchop. I've been no-chilling for over 6 years, probably done over 100 batches this way and have never noticed astringency like that in any of them once they are carbonated and ready to drink. I have noticed at times that FG samples taste more bitter/astringent than intended and I put this down to it simply being green beer, or in the case of dry hopped beers excessive hop matter/tannins still floating around in the sample. By the time they're conditioned and in the glass, they're fine.

I've recently started putting reasonable cube hops into pale ales which has done nothing but improve the hop flavor. The best one so far was about 40g Vic Secret cube hop in a single hop pale ale, along with short boil and flameout additions and a dry hop later on. I might even go bigger in future. That one didn't quite taste as intended when I tasted the FG sample but I've learnt to expect this now and not read too much into it because it's not absolutely indicative of what they end up like in the glass, although ignoring the 'green beer' taste it does give a reasonable idea. Mainly I'm tasting it to make sure it's not infected anyway.