Nitrogen For Dispensing

[ChrisECarpenter]

Hi all - hoping for some advice on nitrogen vs Co2 for dispensing.
At the moment I am dispensing a pilsner, sparkling wine and soda water and so I have a need to maintain pretty high carbonation for the soda and sparkling wines, but of course not so much with the beer.
I'm leaving the sparkling wine and soda water connected to the gas at all times, and just connecting the (keg conditioned) pilsner for serving.
So my question is; given that I can use CO2 to carbonate the soda water (from a separate reg and cylinder), could I use pure nitrogen to serve everything - so that the pilsner doesnt end up over-carbonated?
Cheers
Chris

 

[outbreak]

I think after you costed everything up buying twin regulators would be cheaper. I am not sure if you can just use straight nitrogen either, but someone else will surely answer that.

 

[glaab]

nitrogen is used for stouts usually, gives a creamier head/ smaller bubbles. one of these dual output jobbies is what I use for C02, one set to 1bar for ale and one at about 3bar for soda, cheers
http://www.kegsonline.com.au/prod8.htm

 

[MHB]

Outbreak is correct, just N2 wont work; as the keg empties the amount of dissolved CO2 will fall. Strange as it may seem each gas treats the head space as if it were a vacuum ignoring any other gases in that space so by the time you got to the bottom of the keg the beer would be flat but still pouring well.
Guinness and other cream-pour systems use a blended gas N2/CO2 the ratio is determined by the operating pressure of the system. To get enough N2 into solution you need to at 100-200 kPa (at serving temperatures) straight CO2 would be unmanageable but by having a blend you keep the right level of carbonation.
A duel reg really does sound like the ideal answer to your problem.
MHB

 

[ChrisECarpenter]

Thanks everyone - I had forgotten that the N2 and CO2 would share the headspace and mix so CO2 would come out of solution.
A dual reg sounds like the far simpler solution.
Chris

 

[Logman]

How much better is Stout using a Nitrogen mix? If someone is a Stout lover, are they going to taste one down the track and think "FFS, why haven't I had that all this time" or is it just a marginal improvement ?

 

[Ross]

How much better is Stout using a Nitrogen mix? If someone is a Stout lover, are they going to taste one down the track and think "FFS, why haven't I had that all this time" or is it just a marginal improvement ?

Huge difference - drop into our brewery & you can try the same beer dispensed both ways.

cheers Ross

 

[outbreak]

I would love to have stout permanently on a nitrogen mix setup at home... Maybe when I have more space.

 

[itmechanic]

Huge difference - drop into our brewery & you can try the same beer dispensed both ways.

cheers Ross

Gday Ross,

How do you set your nitro mix up? I normally carb with co2 to around 1.5 volumes, then pour with a 70/30 nitro/co2 mix at 20psi through 10m of 5mm beer line and a restrictor faucet. Works ok, i get a nice creamy head and cascade down the glass, just wondering if there is a better way to do it?

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Logman]

Huge difference - drop into our brewery & you can try the same beer dispensed both ways.

cheers Ross

Again - was just there on Friday (you checked my tempmate wiring for me when I was picking an order up).

Is it just for Stout or any dark beer, what about Porter?

 

[Phoney]

What about nitrous oxide for dispensing? You could laugh your arse off with every pint.

 

[jayse]

I don't think it makes stout actually better at all, some people do, I find it dulls the flavour to a point the beer tastes stale, it softens it and makes it pretty boring, same with any beer.

 

[ChrisECarpenter]

Stouts are dispensed using a nitogenating plate to give the creaminess; I was talking about using nitrogen to empty the kegs (at normal CO2 dispense pressure eg 100kpa) - under the assumption that this would prevent CO2 coming out of solution - but without actually disolving any nitrogen...but I dont think that will actually work
For the record - I love nitrogenated stouts - but the flavour profile has to be right first as theres no acidification from the Carbonic acid disolved from the CO2.
Chris

 

[jayse]

You do still get nitrogen in the beer after time if your using the 70/30 mix for just head pressure and the beer can end up dull and flat. If you go through the keg quickly it should be fine but a half empty keg sitting for weeks will be affected for the worse.

 

[jasonharley]

Where can you buy N2 from without buying a cylinder that is taller than a giraffe wearing stillettos ????

 

[michael_aussie]

Where can you buy N2 from without buying a cylinder that is taller than a giraffe wearing stillettos ????

a good question that ....
and can CO2 extinguishers be filled with N2?

 

[krusty_oz]

Where can you buy N2 from without buying a cylinder that is taller than a giraffe wearing stillettos ????

You'll probably only be able to get rentals from BOC. They do food grade N2 in D size cylinders (similar size to a 6kg CO2).

The only 'small cylinder' N2/CO2 mix they do is Callamix 40 (40% CO2) and that is in a VT size (a fatter D size). I picked up a bottle last week and an Andale Floryte tap with stout nozzle. Will report on the results when I get the keg gassed and the tap hooked up .

 

[Logman]

Where can you buy N2 from without buying a cylinder that is taller than a giraffe wearing stillettos ????

Can it go in a My Keg on Legs 6.8kg?

 

[Bribie G]

For decades Guinness was served on nitro-mix, and in the UK and Ireland, the other beers were either served as real ale with no gas pressure, or as "keg" beer - filtered, pasteurised and served on pure CO2. As real ales got revived a couple of UK breweries realised that if you serve an ale on nitro it would come out smooth and not fizzy but with a nice creamy head, and in many ways very similar to a pint of real ale served through a tight sparkler. So pubs could now offer a product that could be stored and handled without the "hassles" and wastage of real ale, whilst many customers probably didn't realise they weren't drinking real ale.

As a result, nearly all breweries started offering a "smooth", "smoothflow", "creamflow" version of their ales. As a local example, try a pint of Kilkenny if you can still find it around.
I'd love to serve creamflow ales and stouts but the problem is that you wouldn't want to serve a Bo Pils with a flat body and a Guinness Head <_<
So the solution would be two gas bottles, two regulators.......

Also you need to fit "stout taps" as Ross was explaining when I was over there last. The ideal solution would be two kegmates with triple fonts, two gas bottles, two regulators, and fit the nitro kegerator font with 3 stout taps. Oh will it never end ......... :lol:

edit: the old keg beers such as Watney's Red Barrel, Worthington E and Whitbread Tankard are now long extinct. Last night I was supping a pint from my keggo and thinking "you know the only way to get a decent pint of keg nowadays is to brew the bloody thing yourself.

 

[itmechanic]

For decades Guinness was served on nitro-mix, and in the UK and Ireland, the other beers were either served as real ale with no gas pressure, or as "keg" beer - filtered, pasteurised and served on pure CO2. As real ales got revived a couple of UK breweries realised that if you serve an ale on nitro it would come out smooth and not fizzy but with a nice creamy head, and in many ways very similar to a pint of real ale served through a tight sparkler. So pubs could now offer a product that could be stored and handled without the "hassles" and wastage of real ale, whilst many customers probably didn't realise they weren't drinking real ale.

As a result, nearly all breweries started offering a "smooth", "smoothflow", "creamflow" version of their ales. As a local example, try a pint of Kilkenny if you can still find it around.
I'd love to serve creamflow ales and stouts but the problem is that you wouldn't want to serve a Bo Pils with a flat body and a Guinness Head <_<
So the solution would be two gas bottles, two regulators.......

Also you need to fit "stout taps" as Ross was explaining when I was over there last. The ideal solution would be two kegmates with triple fonts, two gas bottles, two regulators, and fit the nitro kegerator font with 3 stout taps. Oh will it never end ......... :lol:

edit: the old keg beers such as Watney's Red Barrel, Worthington E and Whitbread Tankard are now long extinct. Last night I was supping a pint from my keggo and thinking "you know the only way to get a decent pint of keg nowadays is to brew the bloody thing yourself.

This is basically my setup, 2 stout taps with seperate regulator and nitro bottle, 3 perlick 525's on normal co2. Gives me the best of both worlds. I normally always have a stout of some sort and an irish red or similar on the stout taps.