New Year Gold IPA

[Dan Pratt]

Hi,

After a top brewed Black IPA recently and the hop combo of Amarillo and Citra working out great I am looking to make another IPA for New Years. Basically taking the same Malts and Magnum for bittering but am a little unsure of what ratio of the hop combo Nelson Sauvin & Cascade would be best for Flavour and Aroma.

American IPA

OG - 1065
ABV - 6.5%
IBU - 60
EBC - 15

Ale 75%
Flaked Wheat 10%
Carapils 5%
Dextrose 5%

Magnum @ 60mins - 50% Ibu = 30

Nelson Sav & Cascade hop combo @ 15, 10, 5 and Dry Hopped @ 2.5g p/L

The previous IPA with the Amarillo and Citra was even grams per addition and a similar AA% ( 9.5% & 11.1% ) they had different ibu contributions but overall were pretty balance in the final beer.

The NS is @ 13.5%AA and Cascade is @ 5.6%AA, making the NS over double the AA %

How should I hop with these two for flavour and aroma, even grams or balanced ibu contributions?

:huh:

 

[dicko]

I have only used Nelson Sauvin in a Fat Yak clone which is hardly an IPA however I think you need to proceed with caution with the NS as I believe it may become overpowering when bittering and flavouring.

I got incredible aroma from the last beer I did from 25 gr/20l of NS at 80 deg wort temp and let steep for 25 minutes. I could smell the hops in the beer from a metre away when the beer was young and it subsided (or I got used to it ) as the keg emptied.

I'm sure others will help with the flavour additions but if it were me I would go half the weight addition of NS compared to Cascade from 15 minutes ,on and even that may be a bit too much Nelson.

BTW I would probably drop the Dextrose and sub some Medium Crystal or Biscuit malt/Victory malt but that is only me...

Cheers

 

[Dan Pratt]

Thanks Dicko.

Im uurring on the side of caution with NS as I made Ross's Nelson Sav Summer Ale and the NS was too much, really why I posted to find out.

The dex is to boost ABV but will look into adding something else like the victory malt which i have heard good things about.

Hopefully someone has made a IPA with this combo and can shed some light on how to balance it.

 

[fletcher]

I recently made an IPA with those two hops and I think I got just the right amount of each, if not a tiny bit more on the Nelson side which wasn't bad. I'll happily post it if you want

 

[JDW81]

The dex is to boost ABV but will look into adding something else like the victory malt which i have heard good things about.

Victory would work, as would biscuit or even a bit of munich.

 

[breakbeer]

I've used the combo of Nelson & Cascade in a Black IPA that turned out really well

31g Nelson @ 60
10g Cascade @ 60
21g Nelson @ 10
10g Cascade @ 10
30g Nelson @ 0
10g Cascade @ 0
49g Nelson Dry
10g Cascade Dry

Initially the recipe was only Nelson with 41g/31g/40g & 59g but I decided to sub out some of it with Cascade & just decided on 10g of Cascade per addition as a sub

btw, it was farken delicious (my best mate wants me to brew it for his wedding so it couldn't have been too bad)

 

[fletcher]

For what it's worth, this was mine. With bottling and carbonating it brought it up to about 6 or so abv%

I bittered with cascade and mine was a bit higher AA% than i've normally seen, so adjust accordingly. Having said that, i'd recommend adding a bit more cascade if yours is lower cos i like mine even and i think it was juuuust a little too much nelson. Still loved the hell out it. For yours, i agree with dicko and jdw and probably add some crystal or munich (or vienna) to beef it up and balance out the high bitterness.

The Fat Polar
American IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Original Gravity (OG): 1.055 (°P): 13.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.12 %
Colour (SRM): 9.7 (EBC): 19.0
Bitterness (IBU): 62.0 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 68
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
Maris Otter Malt (80.77%)
Vienna (9.62%)
Crystal 60 (5.77%)
Carapils (Dextrine) (3.85%)

Hop Bill
----------------
Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.2 g/L)
Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 7 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.5% Alpha) @ 7 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (1.4 g/L)
Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.5% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (1 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
Whirlfloc Tablet @ 15 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 64°C for 60 Minutes.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Thanks guys for the input, I will tinker with the malt bill over the next few days.

Looking at my current aa% ratings of the 2 hops to get an even Ibu balance it would be about a 3:1 ration or cascade to NS.

Hey Fletcher,

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, been spending time with the young bloke all arvo. Thanks for sharing your recipe.

When you dry hopped, at what stage of ferment and temp did you throw them in?

 

[Dan Pratt]

Recipe: 39 - New Year Gold IPA
Style: American IPA
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 8.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 58.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner (JW Au) (3.5 EBC) Grain 1 83.3 %
0.50 kg Wheat, Flaked(JW Au) (3.2 EBC) Grain 2 8.3 %
0.35 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine(Wey) (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 5.8 %
0.15 kg Victory Malt(US) (49.3 EBC) Grain 4 2.5 %

23.00 g Magnum [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 28.1 IBUs

28.00 g Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 7.3 IBUs
11.00 g Nelson Sauvin [13.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 6.9 IBUs
28.00 g Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 5.3 IBUs
11.00 g Nelson Sauvin [13.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 5.1 IBUs
28.00 g Cascade [5.60 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 2.9 IBUs
11.00 g Nelson Sauvin [13.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 2.8 IBUs
35.00 g Cascade [5.60 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 12 -
14.00 g Nelson Sauvin [13.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Da Hop 13 -

1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast 14

Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium - Full Body
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperatu Step Time
Protein Rest Add 27.00l of water and heat 20.0 C - min
Saccharification Heat to 66.0 C over 45 min 66.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 76.0 C over 10 min 76.0 C 15 min

Im thinking this is starting to look right, does that % of victory to replace the dextrose seem right?

 

[fletcher]

Thanks guys for the input, I will tinker with the malt bill over the next few days.

Looking at my current aa% ratings of the 2 hops to get an even Ibu balance it would be about a 3:1 ration or cascade to NS.

Hey Fletcher,

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, been spending time with the young bloke all arvo. Thanks for sharing your recipe.

When you dry hopped, at what stage of ferment and temp did you throw them in?

no need to apologise mate. my pleasure about the recipe. turned out a cracker.

yours looks the goods, although i would still combine all your later addition hops at 10 minutes for a massive hit of nelson and cascade, particularly if you're going to dry hop for more aroma. my 2c. i can't comment on the victory malt as i've never used it.

dry hopping is one of those things that it really depends on what you do afterwards too. this was an early recipe and back then i used to dry hop for about 7 days while still at primary temp, then crash chill with them in but found that about 95%+ of the aroma was lost in the bottle for me. because i bottle, i find it better to crash chill (2C), waiting 2-3 days, then dry hopping right before i'm about to bottle after the hops have sunk to the trub (1-2 days). so now, later is better.

 

[Dan Pratt]

dry hopping is one of those things that it really depends on what you do afterwards too. this was an early recipe and back then i used to dry hop for about 7 days while still at primary temp, then crash chill with them in but found that about 95%+ of the aroma was lost in the bottle for me. because i bottle, i find it better to crash chill (2C), waiting 2-3 days, then dry hopping right before i'm about to bottle after the hops have sunk to the trub (1-2 days). so now, later is better.

I have found that too with the dry hopping, in fact the first few brews I attempted dry hopping during initial ferment put me off the option as the results were not good. I turned to steeping the hops at 80c for 20mins to get that aroma kick which worked well but that always made brewnight longer.

Now with dry hopping I use the same principles to wait till ferm has reach FG and chill to 4c and add the hops for 3-5 days, this has worked much better.
Love the website you have made for your beers, top stuff! :kooi:

 

[JDW81]

A lot of people make the mistake of dry hopping far too early. If fermentation is still active the CO2 coming out of solution will drive out the hop aroma. If you have reached your FG (or are very close, say within 2 points) then there isn't any harm in dry hopping at fermenting temps. I've just done an APA, dry hopped with cascade and chinook and the hops went in after 2 weeks fermentation, stayed in for about 3 days then bottled yesterday. The hop aroma is such that it gives you goose bumps. I also have every confidence that the aroma will remain in the bottle.

It is like many things in home brewing, it requires a little bit of patience and flexibility.

My 2c.

JD

 

[fletcher]

Love the website you have made for your beers, top stuff! :kooi:


thanks mate! yeah it started out simple then I liked it so added more and more crap to it, and put it on Facebook too. makes it more fun for me also documenting them

 

[JDW81]

Nice work on the website Fletcher, however looking through your pics you are missing one of the 2 essential pieces of brewing kit. You have a brew dog, which is the most essential, but you don't have a blue milk crate anywhere in sight. You can't be a real brewer until you have at least one milk crate (preferably blue)

 

[spog]

A lot of people make the mistake of dry hopping far too early. If fermentation is still active the CO2 coming out of solution will drive out the hop aroma. If you have reached your FG (or are very close, say within 2 points) then there isn't any harm in dry hopping at fermenting temps. I've just done an APA, dry hopped with cascade and chinook and the hops went in after 2 weeks fermentation, stayed in for about 3 days then bottled yesterday. The hop aroma is such that it gives you goose bumps. I also have every confidence that the aroma will remain in the bottle.

It is like many things in home brewing, it requires a little bit of patience and flexibility.

My 2c.

JD

. Beer smith has a podcast about hop usage etc with Gordon Strong? . #63. Well worth listening to,covers a lot of areas .

 

[Dan Pratt]

For some reason im leaning away from the hops schedule of Magnum for bittering 50% of total Ibu and running with Simcoe for bittering and then a combo of Cascade and Amarillo at 15, 10, 5 and Dry Hopped.

Would that be crazy? :blink:

 

[fletcher]

Nice work on the website Fletcher, however looking through your pics you are missing one of the 2 essential pieces of brewing kit. You have a brew dog, which is the most essential, but you don't have a blue milk crate anywhere in sight. You can't be a real brewer until you have at least one milk crate (preferably blue)


i'll go on the hunt for one now! haha

i rarely update the pics. i should probably put all my new ones up. thanks for your feedback peeps!

 

[fletcher]

For some reason im leaning away from the hops schedule of Magnum for bittering 50% of total Ibu and running with Simcoe for bittering and then a combo of Cascade and Amarillo at 15, 10, 5 and Dry Hopped.

Would that be crazy? :blink:


crazy? possibly. tasty? definitely

 

[Dan Pratt]

Gee whiz, changing my mind......

I have found what combo I think will make the beer Im after.

Magnum @ 60mins = 50% of the Ibu

Then for flavour and aroma

Simcoe, Centennial & Cascade @ 15m, 10m, 5m = the other 50% of the Ibu ( equal parts of each hop )

Dry hopping with 28g of each hop for 5 days = 4g/L

You might wonder why the change....after thinking and reading more ( yes the cascade amarillo combo would have been nice ) but the option of Nelson Sav kept bugging me yet I cant not think of the summer ale all NS hop i made that i didnt like much at all......

Can anyone see a problem with this hop combo Simcoe, Centennial and Cascade?

 

[fletcher]

Gee whiz, changing my mind......

I have found what combo I think will make the beer Im after.

Magnum @ 60mins = 50% of the Ibu

Then for flavour and aroma

Simcoe, Centennial & Cascade @ 15m, 10m, 5m = the other 50% of the Ibu ( equal parts of each hop )

Dry hopping with 28g of each hop for 5 days = 4g/L

You might wonder why the change....after thinking and reading more ( yes the cascade amarillo combo would have been nice ) but the option of Nelson Sav kept bugging me yet I cant not think of the summer ale all NS hop i made that i didnt like much at all......

Can anyone see a problem with this hop combo Simcoe, Centennial and Cascade?


no mate, no problem. i think any combination of them would be a ripper in all honesty. put it this way, no matter what, it'll be a nice beer. best thing to do is go with one, try it, and try the other combo later and taste the differences leaving as many tasting notes as you can. it's really the only way but it's also the funnest cos you make two nice beers.

similarly, i'm now going back through older recipes i liked and making small changes to see if there is a hop combo i prefer. some times just a substitution hop or more of one or less of one or some at the same time to really fine tune it.

NS and cascade play really well but if you don't like the NS, try and figure out if it's the taste of it or because it was ALL NS. i'm starting to get super bored of single hop beers i make personally. try it in smaller quantities and see if you like the slight notes in leaves in the taste (i think i posted a recipe here before with roughly equal parts NS and cascade and it was lovely)