New to liquid yeast

[Matty3450]

Hi All,

Apologies in advance, Ive trolled this awesome forum for quite some time now and have learnt so so much about brewing to date and have been making some quality BIAB beer in a 70ltr pot.

To date ive concetrated on ales using dry yeast only -US-05. Im currently in the process of purchasing a 50Ltr Braumeister and would like to take my brewing to hopefully the next level and start using liquid yeasts for both ales and hopefully lagers. Possibly enjoy some cost savings in time with reusing and splitting yeast packs.

I fully understand that that yeast and yeast starters have been discussed in depth on this forum in the past but i still remain slightly confused.

I understand how to make the starter and understand that a 1 ltr starter of 1.040 wort fermented will double my cell count on a wyeast pack from 100 Billion to 200 Billion cells roughly.

Just curious mainly of other peoples experiences with liquid yeast.

How big should my starter be from 1 pack of WYEAST for a 50 Ltr ale batch at around 1.055?

And I pose the same question for a 50 ltr lager at around 1.055 also from what i have read the starter should be twice as big is this correct?

I also like the idea of reusing my liquid yeast in everyones vast brewing experiences what is the best way of achieving this?

Thanks very very much if anyone can help me out

Regards

Matt

 

[GalBrew]

Re: yeast numbers. You need to use a yeast calculator such as MrMalty or YeastCalc. Plug your values in and it will spit out what you need and how to achieve this.

 

[slash22000]

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

:chug:

 

[GalBrew]

Also, you might want to go and get yourself a copy of the yeast book by Jamil Zainasheff and Chris White from White Labs. It will give you a good grounding in all things yeast.

 

[chefeffect]

This is what I do to reuse yeast: http://billybrew.com/yeast-washing

 

[treefiddy]

For 50 L batches you really need to make use of a stir plate.

A 3 L starter on a stir plate will get you the required cells for an ale, whereas you would need a much much larger starter (15 L) without one.

For a lager pitched cold, you need roughly double the yeast. Pretty impractical right?
For 50 L batches of lager I make a smaller beer, say 20 L and then pitch the 50 L lager on the yeast cake of the smaller batch.

 

[GalBrew]

You can also do a stepped starter to achieve high yeast numbers for a big batch cold pitched lager. YeastCalc can help here also.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There is enou...........oh hang on......better not go there

 

[Matty3450]

Thanks everyone for their valued reply Ill further research these areas

Thanks Kindly

 

[tanukibrewer]

As no expert, I just put 200g of malt for 2 litres of water (10:1 gives you an og around 1040) boil it then chill it. Let the beaker with the wort in it warm up to room temp then I add then contents of the liquid yeast (Which I smacked and has been growing since the day before) and then let that brew away for a day before I plan on using it. Just before I throw it in the fermenter I decant off most of the liquid and pitch the slurry. I mainly brew ales and realise I may be under pitching but I don't have the resources to do 15L starters for lagers
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

 

[treefiddy]

15 L starter is a full batch of beer to some here.

When summer comes and I go camping with mates, the plan is to bring a 50 L keg of inoffensive Aussie lager.
Dry yeast is cheap right? Well I'm cheaper, and I like to try new things.
I'll use 1 pack of S23/S189 at 18°C for an ale of sorts (smash maybe) to about 25 L in my 60 L fermenter.
When that's done and kegged/bottled I'll tip 52 L of said inoffensive lager wort on top, which should be close to an optimal pitch.

Then I might even use the cake again because I can, and all that beer will soon be gone.

 

[tanukibrewer]

I see, you use lager yeast to brew out an ale at 18c then re-pitch on top of that with a lager wort to brew a lager. I usually do 40L batches in my stainless conical and usually just do it the way I mentioned above with the correct yeast for the correct style at the correct temperature. But I think now I will have to rethink it all and just go with pitching rates.
Thanks

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

I make a starter from the wort - crank it for 6-12 hrs on a stir plate
then use the "..........." technique (Bribie G knows the name, I've forgotten it)

Cube 1 gets your starter and ferments for 24 hrs.
Grab a third empty cube (cube 3).
Pour 10L from cube 2 (wort) into cube 3
Then drop 10L of cube 1 into 2 and then 3.
You end up with 2 cubes ...

Been doing it for ales and lagers - no worries and 1 pack of liquid yeast.
Cheers
BBB

 

[seamad]

Have a look at http://www.yeastcalc.com/

I think it's easier to use .
The problem with just using a set volume starter as some have advocated is you will end up with very different amounts of yeast each time depending on the age of your smackpack/vial. Whether this concerns you or not is up to you, don't want to start another "enough yeast" thread.

 

[Nick JD]

I get the smackpack and digital scales and some 300ml PET bottles that are filled with starsan. And a cool kettle of boiled water.

Snip the smackpack and put the sanitised bottle on the scales and add 25g of yeast liquid - top up with boiled water, lid on, labeled with strain and date, into fridge.

Repeat 3 more times.

Put the last 25g in the smackpack into preprepared 2L of wort with 200g of LDME.

 

[Matty3450]

Thanks guys for all the information.

Nick JD if all is done with the highest of sanitiation how long would you store the yeast in the bottles?

 

[Nick JD]

Thanks guys for all the information.

Nick JD if all is done with the highest of sanitiation how long would you store the yeast in the bottles?

Better to buy a pack of sterile 30ml vials - but the old PET bottle thing works (that said, I had a "lager" that was "infected" with Belgian Ardennes yeast a while back - tasted like a Wit - cross contamination is more likely than infection with all the reusing). I have this 1272 starter on my bench that was made from a yeast pack split in February. Took a good 24 hours to fire, but there's a nice thick layer of yeast there now to pitch into a 12L 1.067 IPA.

Storage depends on the actual date of manufacture on the smackpack, more than when it was split. 6 months is as long as I have gone.

 

[Judanero]

Nick do you "smack" the pack first to release the nutes before splitting?
Keen to get this happening while my hepa filter is still under construction (so I can make agar plates)

 

[seamad]

I smack mine first and split into 4 ( use the above sterile containers) Recently revived one about 2 years old, added some wort to the vial first and did a series of steps, worked fine. For some of the seasonal yeasts i make some slants.

 

[Nick JD]

I smack the pack first - mostly to make sure I'm not splitting dead yeast.