New To Brew

[QIK86]

Hey guys,

I've been reading a bit here since I discovered the site and must say, your knowledge on the world of brewing has blown me away. I've learnt more about brewing from my visits here than I have about almost any subject in such a small space of time. So first of all, thank you!

I'm fairly new to brewing, having had a nice result from my first attempt (a Tooheys Special Draught kit), I've got a Coopers Mexican Cerveza ageing in the shed and I'm almost ready to bottle my third and put down my fourth straight away.

My questions involve the one I'm almost ready to bottle. It is a Morgan's Queenslander Lager kit which I did as per the instructions simply adding 1kg of Dextrose and filling to 23L and using the kit yeast. First off, can anyone tell me if the kit yeast is a true lager yeast, or is it a more generic ale yeast to better suit the typical QLD weather?

As we were having a particularly cold snap when I put the brew down, I purchased a heat mat and used that. When I got home from work the next day, the wort was sitting on a constant 28C and had frothed out of the airlock. After more investigation on here, I found the temp was far too high, so turned the heater off. Since then, I have invested in a cheap electrical timer which I have set to a cycle of on for 1 hour, off for 3 hours, which has seen my brew sitting at a steady 18C-20C ever since.

Just wondering though, could the initial 24hrs or so of 28C temperatures have any lasting side effects? I have read about Fusel Alcohols and have myself a little worried.

My next brew is going to be a Coopers Australian Pale Ale, using the can, 500g Dextrose, 250g Light Dry Malt and 250g Corn Syrup. My first try at something other than the boring old 1kg of Dextrose!

Thanks in advance for the help guys.

 

[KGB]

28 is very high, you might get away with it though if it wasn't for too long - there's only one way to tell though and thats to wait and see! Make sure you give your brews plenty of time to condition as well. Often a pretty average brew can change into a drinkable beer given a couple of months extra.

 

[Adric Hunter]

almost no kit yeasts are real lager yeasts, they are just a dry fermenting ale yeast. To check just read the temperature recomendations on the side of the can if it recommends something in the range of 10-14 degrees then it is a true lager, if its higher then its an ale. BTW never fement an ale any higher than about 22 degrees, not 25 which so many cans recommend, for that matter dont use the kit yeasts if you can avoid it, go to a homebrew store and get yourself some premium yeast. You will notice the difference instantly.

 

[seemax]

Having just bottled a Coopers Pale Ale can, I would recommend you use more malt and less dextrose. The quantities you mentioned pretty much make up the Brew Enhancer 2, which is about $7 from Big W. That much dex will thin the beer too much.

If you have the time and inclination why not try using using dry malt from your home brew shop, probably cost $9-10 a kg. Use something like 500g malt, 250g dex and 250g corn syrup.

If you're even more keen, get 200g or so of crystal malt (light), just ask at your local HB shop and they will know what you're after. Heat up 3L of water to about 80C, add the crystal malt and stir very well, it should end up about 70C. Put lid on pan, cover it with a towel or similar and leave it for 30mins. I use a 3L esky so the temp remains constant, but a pan is fine. Well done, you have just hot "steeped" grain! Get a fine sieve and pour the water into your fermentor or kettle if you're planning to do a boil. This will add more flavour and should improve head retention.

For an even better beer, grab 20g of Pride of Ringwood/Amarillo/Cascade hops from your HB shop, and boil them for 30mins in 2L water. Strain with a fine sieve into the fermentor. This will add a nice bitter edge as well as some subtle flavour/aroma.

 

[pablo_h]

If you have the time and inclination why not try using using dry malt from your home brew shop, probably cost $9-10 a kg. Use something like 500g malt, 250g dex and 250g corn syrup.

Coopers malt sold in department stores is $5.20 for 500g, no need to go to a brew shop for that. Just use 500g coopers malt and 500g coopers brewing sugar.
I've started buying the coopers malt at BigW since my LHBS put the price up on dme to $12kg

 

[The Big Burper]

Coopers malt sold in department stores is $5.20 for 500g, no need to go to a brew shop for that. Just use 500g coopers malt and 500g coopers brewing sugar.
I've started buying the coopers malt at BigW since my LHBS put the price up on dme to $12kg

Somebody is being ripped off. My local HBS sells dried brewers malt at 7.95/kg, and the equivalent of Coopers BE2 for 4.95 a kilo bag. :huh:

Back on the subject, don't worry too much about high temp brewing, I did it for years
Many brews started on 32 and every one was drinkable. Even used white sugar back in those days, before dextrose became widely available. Also Morgans is one of the better
kit brews, but as others have said, it is an ale yeast, and a good one at that. I think
it is Mauri 514 ale yeast.

cheers,
Dave

 

[QIK86]

Yeah, i got my mix of LDM/Dex/Corn syrup for my next Pale Ale from my LHBS. 5 bucks for a kilo. Although I'm not concerned with price, as I'm happy to pay a bit more to help keep the LHBS in business. So far though it's been cheaper than the department stores anyway.

As for changing the ratios, I may in the future but for this next brew, I want to stick to my plan so I can gradually see what difference it makes. Thanks for the advice so far guys.

Another question, how do you culture your own yeast? I've read of people doing this from Coopers Pale Ale stubbies and would be interested to find out how?

 

[Adamt]

The yeast in the Queenslander series of kits is better attuned to higher temperature brewing, however still lower temperatures are preferrable to get cleaner character from the yeast. 20C is a good target.

EDIT: Here is an article on reculturing Coopers yeast, link.

 

[0M39A]

I've started buying the coopers malt at BigW since my LHBS put the price up on dme to $12kg

and im sure you wonder why your lhbs had to put their prices up...

 

[seemax]

Yeah, i got my mix of LDM/Dex/Corn syrup for my next Pale Ale from my LHBS. 5 bucks for a kilo. Although I'm not concerned with price, as I'm happy to pay a bit more to help keep the LHBS in business. So far though it's been cheaper than the department stores anyway.

As for changing the ratios, I may in the future but for this next brew, I want to stick to my plan so I can gradually see what difference it makes. Thanks for the advice so far guys.

Another question, how do you culture your own yeast? I've read of people doing this from Coopers Pale Ale stubbies and would be interested to find out how?

Culturing yeast is simple. For a 23L batch you'll need a 1L yeast starter. Get 2 Pale Ale stubbies, gently pour off the beer (drink it of course!) until there is about 20% left in each bottle. Boil up 1L of water and 100g of dry malt for about 10mins. Cool it down to about 20C. Thoroughly sterilise a 2L coke bottle and the lid. Pour cooled wort into bottle then add the remainder of the 2 beers. You now have a mini brew. Either put the lid on or just cover it with glad wrap and rubber band. Shake it well every 4 hours. Within 3-4 days it will be ready to do, ideally you should pitch it at full krausen, this is when the foam is at it's peak and the yeast is most lively.

Good luck

Stef

 

[pablo_h]

and im sure you wonder why your lhbs had to put their prices up...

No why? I was buying from them before they started charging more than any other HB in the country. They're a brewcraft distro, not a tiny independant. The independants I know charge $10kg or less, they're just too far away.

 

[QIK86]

Culturing the yeast sounds easy enough. Would you get a noticable improvement over using dry yeast included in the Coopers kit?

Also, can you do this with any other commercially available beers? Gives the kit brewers like me something else to play with.

 

[Bribie G]

While we're on the subject, whilst the idea of culturing the Coopers commercial yeast is excellent - provided your beer recipe is appropriate to type - one thing I have noticed with the many many many Coopers I have drunk is that, especially with the Sparkling Ale, the trub doesn't cling very well to the bottom of the bottle and swirls up at the first opportunity. It's almost as if Coopers are proclaiming: hey here's the yeast, look at the yeast, man we are pure and natural as you can see from the yeast...did we mention yeast?....

Great if you like a cloudy beer, but I notice that Morgans generic 'lager' yeasts and particularly their ale yeast, settles out so well that the beer is basically commercial clarity when I pour it.

I've just gone upmarket and bought some saflagers and safales and will be interested to see how they perform in the bottle.

 

[QIK86]

Would using cultured yeast give a noticable improvement over the dry yeast included in the Coopers kit?

 

[Hefty]

While we're on the subject, whilst the idea of culturing the Coopers commercial yeast is excellent - provided your beer recipe is appropriate to type - one thing I have noticed with the many many many Coopers I have drunk is that, especially with the Sparkling Ale, the trub doesn't cling very well to the bottom of the bottle and swirls up at the first opportunity. It's almost as if Coopers are proclaiming: hey here's the yeast, look at the yeast, man we are pure and natural as you can see from the yeast...did we mention yeast?....

Great if you like a cloudy beer, but I notice that Morgans generic 'lager' yeasts and particularly their ale yeast, settles out so well that the beer is basically commercial clarity when I pour it.

I've just gone upmarket and bought some saflagers and safales and will be interested to see how they perform in the bottle.

My first Coopers Pale Ale with recultured yeast is now a month in the bottle and is the brightest beer I've made yet. Yes, it does still swirl up a little if you agitate it but I'd say not even as much as a bought one.

Would using cultured yeast give a noticable improvement over the dry yeast included in the Coopers kit?

Short answer - Yes.
Longer answer - if you maintain a good and constant temp (16-18*C) you really can notice the pear esters and the slight toasty grain flavour that you get with the commercial version (and I only used the tin, dextrose and DME!).

Jono.

 

[DKS]

Would using cultured yeast give a noticable improvement over the dry yeast included in the Coopers kit?

Improvement or just different depends on your taste. I think its worth it if you have the time and /or patiance especialy when starting out.
I try to stay away from the 514 supplied with most kits, not that theres anything wrong with them but I aim to make the best beer I can what ever the style. For the amount of time and effort cleanning, sterilising etc a few bucks on premium yeast is well spent. Plus for me that learning curve and experimenting is all part of the fun of home brewing. :icon_cheers:

Daz

 

[QIK86]

Quick question, the SG of the Morgan's Queenslander Lager I'm brewing has been sitting at 1009 for 3 days now. Put down 21/07/08 with the can, 1kg of dex and kit yeast. However the airlock is still bubbling a couple of times a minute. What do you think? Safe to bottle?

 

[lobo]

it sounds like its done, but the only way to know is the same hydrometer reading 24hrs apart.

lobo

edit, stupid, i read the post properly, 'sitting at 1009 for 3 days now'. go for your life!

 

[KGB]

'Bubbling a few times per minute' still seems a little too active for my liking, although if your SG reading s are constant I guess it could be just dissolved CO2 coming out slowly rather than CO2 still forming due to fermentation. I'd leave it another day or two to be sure, it won't harm the brew and will probably help it clear a tiny bit more.

As for culturing yeasts from other brews; some beers use a different yeast for bottle conditioning after the beer has been fermented - so collecting and culturing that yeast won't give you similar results to the original brew. Its all on here somewhere if you search

 

[Cocko]

The bubbling could be trapped C02 escaping from the beer and fermentation is complete....

However, your brew is still producing gas of some sort so if bottling... hmm.. its your call but 2 more days won't kill but a bottle bomb might!!

My $0.02

Cocko