New Australian Style - Experiment Invite/Discussion

[Nizmoose]

Pacific is a big ocean. I reckon South Pacific Ale would make it more specific to Aust/NZ.

I did go and have a google of the pacific to check and got sad when I saw the list of countries that border it lol, South Pacific is definitely a better representation

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Forgive me I am still starting out, onto 8 brews now, so much to learn.

Don't be. I don't believe absolutely strongly that this particular description should be what we put out as a new style (though I'm not agnostic to it either), I just tried to put into words what the Stone & Wood Pacific Ale was and what the clones of it became. I do believe that S&W PA is one of those beers that has has defined a new style and probably agree with it at least being out there as an option.

How it goes from there is anyone's guess. Either way, I'm enjoying the beer conversation and given there are beers on BJCP that homebrewers haven't really even had much say on, it'd be nice to see something out there that's different from the stock-standard "Fosters" perception of Aussie beer.

Oh, and you never stop learning.

 

[Nizmoose]

If your that bent on using 'Pacific' maybe a 'South Pacific Ale' SPA.

So much in a name! needs to encompass the style particularly without ambiguity.

Sorry for the double post but Ooo just read SPA and that has a nice ring to it!

Also as said before it'd be sooo nice to have a style we can be proud of that doesn't exist anywhere else and that doesn't reinforce that fosters vb sub par beer stigma that is attached to Australian beer. I think this style would be unique as well as having enough freedom to experiment in. S&W currently have the only commercial example but who's to say someone won't come up with some variations that fit within the style? I think it'd be exciting if this went further, something us Aussies could be proud to put our names next to.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I agree a pacific ale does sound good but I think it is too general and not reflective of the specifics in the style so Australasian or Oceanic would be more suiting to the style.

When I brew I generally like a chewier beer more so than a watery thin beer so I would brew between 1012 and 1008 and have a bit heavier fruit and bitterness to it, but that's just me, I like intensity even in my session beers!

Looking at maps its appears the the Indian ocean represents more of Australasia than any other.
South Pacific too me doesn't make me think Australian, does sound good though.
Southern Oceans Pale Ale has a ring to it.
Nev

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Not bad Nev, I don't mind that at all.

I suppose the majority of hop growing areas in the Antipodes are Pacific (though you'd argue that the Tasman Sea puts paid to that idea).

Southern Ocean does border part of Tassie and NZ, so it's more indicative.

I think I would be avoiding the use of "Pale" as a word, so it doesn't get classified as a Pale Ale (whether English or American) - it probably bears more resemblance to an American Wheat if anything (though I really dislike thinking of it that way).

Southern Oceans Ale? Southern Ocean Ale? Tasman Sea Ale? But then, S&W are on the Pacific Ocean - so are we going for providence of the beer, or providence of the hops?

I'm confusing myself

After thinking it through - SPA or Southern Oceans Ale is better.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Yes could drop the pale part, (SOA) would cover all bases with out being exclusive.

 

[Nizmoose]

Not bad Nev, I don't mind that at all.

I suppose the majority of hop growing areas in the Antipodes are Pacific (though you'd argue that the Tasman Sea puts paid to that idea).

Southern Ocean does border part of Tassie and NZ, so it's more indicative.

I think I would be avoiding the use of "Pale" as a word, so it doesn't get classified as a Pale Ale (whether English or American) - it probably bears more resemblance to an American Wheat if anything (though I really dislike thinking of it that way).

Southern Oceans Ale? Southern Ocean Ale? Tasman Sea Ale? But then, S&W are on the Pacific Ocean - so are we going for providence of the beer, or providence of the hops?

I'm confusing myself

After thinking it through - SPA or Southern Oceans Ale is better.

The P in SPA is for Pacific though not pale I think Pacific covers both S&W providence as well as hops purely because both Australia (specifically the east coast) and new Zealand both border the pacific, then adding South indicates Oceania as opposed to North Pacific

 

[AndrewQLD]

let me see if I understand this, you guys are creating a style guideline based on one commercial beer? Why not just broaden the existing AABA style of Australian Pale Ale to include a broader range of ingredients?

 

[Blind Dog]

let me see if I understand this, you guys are creating a style guideline based on one commercial beer? Why not just broaden the existing AABA style of Australian Pale Ale to include a broader range of ingredients?

Have to say I agree with the above

Difficult to see why we would want to have 2 styles representing Australasian ales that are each essentially based on a single commercial beer.

Plus, IMO, there are much better examples of Ales that either showcase AU/NZ hops or are simply better beers available commercially from AU or NZ craft brewers. Happy to agree to disagree on that one though

 

[Nizmoose]

let me see if I understand this, you guys are creating a style guideline based on one commercial beer? Why not just broaden the existing AABA style of Australian Pale Ale to include a broader range of ingredients?

No based on one commercial beer that fits into no current style nor any broadening of any existing one. On top of that it's a style which is gaining popularity among brewers and is yet to have a name, it simply doesn't fit into the Aussie pale Ale style guidelines, even looking at the wheat content and fruity characters as well as colour it's nowhere near it. It's a style that is undefined and is gaining popularity and by all means may have more commercial representations in the future. Every style starts somewhere and typically styles were based around one brewery in one town in one country let alone one company

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

let me see if I understand this, you guys are creating a style guideline based on one commercial beer? Why not just broaden the existing AABA style of Australian Pale Ale to include a broader range of ingredients?

Because the existing Australian Pale Ale has become Australian Sparkling Ale in the 2014 revisions, and really reflects the coopers style beers with the pear/apple esters and the fairly balanced, but moderate amounts of everything.

This, as I see it, (and again I go back to, I don't necessarily believe in it, just in the idea that something extra be added for AU/NZ) is adding a style that is fairly different and couldn't really be subsumed to CPA/CSA style beers.

Yes, it started as S&W beer, but expanded to say "okay, if we had a lighter colour beer with AU and NZ hops in a similar style to S&W PA, what could it encompass?".

Listening to Gordon Stone of BJCP, the revisions are based on what brewers are brewing already. But he does admit that it's a fairly American centric proposition. Would the Americans do a beer like this? Would they do it with our hops?

We do know that in Australia we are brewing a S&W clone a lot and this is taking it extra places. I would see possibly something like Ross' Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale being another beer fairly close in style. Or more Vic Secret based beers that are summer quaffers. Almost everyone is probably preparing to brew their summer beers, and most of us have a beer that is within cooee of this sort of style, even if we aren't using galaxy, we are brewing lighter bodied, sessionable ales with local hops for local weather.

Again, I'm just beer-versing

 

[Nizmoose]

Lord Raja's description I think aptly describes something that would not fit into current or modified AusPA style guidelines and if someone has created something completely unique that lots of people are brewing why would a new style be created? Why try and broaden an already broad style guideline? It defeats the purpose of a style guideline.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Have to say I agree with the above



Difficult to see why we would want to have 2 styles representing Australasian ales that are each essentially based on a single commercial beer.


Plus, IMO, there are much better examples of Ales that either showcase AU/NZ hops or are simply better beers available commercially from AU or NZ craft brewers. Happy to agree to disagree on that one though

I would say also, that a lot of these very very excellent beers are generally American Style Beers with Aussie hops. I think of Bridge Roads Bling IPA or Single Hop IPA with Galaxy or Stella. Excellent beers, but very much AIPA styles.

 

[AndrewQLD]

No based on one commercial beer that fits into no current style nor any broadening of any existing one. On top of that it's a style which is gaining popularity among brewers and is yet to have a name, it simply doesn't fit into the Aussie pale Ale style guidelines, even looking at the wheat content and fruity characters as well as colour it's nowhere near it. It's a style that is undefined and is gaining popularity and by all means may have more commercial representations in the future. Every style starts somewhere and typically styles were based around one brewery in one town in one country let alone one company

I disagree with this, to use the term style to me infers more than one example is available and while a style has to start somewhere it can hardly be termed a style until it has quite a few copiers and a larger range of beers to make it a style.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I disagree with this, to use the term style to me infers more than one example is available and while a style has to start somewhere it can hardly be termed a style until it has quite a few copiers and a larger range of beers to make it a style.

Do the copiers need to be commercial breweries?

 

[AndrewQLD]

LRG, then why don't we organize a style for JSGA ot fat yak?

 

[AndrewQLD]

Do the copiers need to be commercial breweries?

You'd have to get clarification from the BJCP, although to be honest i don't see why they should be involved. Wouldn't this be better taken up with our own body here in Aust. the AABA?

 

[Blind Dog]

I would say also, that a lot of these very very excellent beers are generally American Style Beers with Aussie hops. I think of Bridge Roads Bling IPA or Single Hop IPA with Galaxy or Stella. Excellent beers, but very much AIPA styles.

Can't disagree with that per se, but they're not simply SNPA clones with aussie hops; to my taste the malts have been rebalanced in the best examples to account for the Aussie hops

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

LRG, then why don't we organize a style for JSGA ot fat yak?

The way I am seeing it (and again, I'm blowing hot air for the sake of debate), JSGA and Fat Yak would be easily slotted into another style of beer - either AAA (JSGA) or APA (Fat Yak). So when formulating guidelines for AABC, and you want local commercial examples, you pop JSGA under AAA and Fat Yak under APA.

I've been pondering for a while where does S&W PA fit in? To me, it doesn't. But it does get fairly widely cloned by home brewers. The new guidelines are, according to Gordon, more about adjusting guidelines for what Homebrewers are making - which is why Black IPA gets a nod, but you couldn't enter it in its own category before, just as a specialty beer.

On another point, I'll pop the new BJCP guidelines up - 12B is ASA.

 

[Blind Dog]

Do the copiers need to be commercial breweries?

[SIZE=10pt]IMO there needs to be more than 1 commercial example, ideally a number of breweries and a heap of home brewers too[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Maybe I’m talking for myself, but even when I brew an absolute cracker of a beer the next time I brew it I’ll fiddle with the recipe so that by the time I’ve brewed it a few times it’s completely morphed from where it was to what it now is. Just following any recipe thread here would suggest that I’m not alone[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]How then can we define a style, which necessarily has set parameters that are quite narrow, based on what home brewers do when we are by nature tinkerers? I reckon we’ll be complaining about restrictions in no time flat[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]A commercial brewery does not have our freedom and thus it is easier and likely to be more accurate to define a style based on commercially available be[/SIZE]