New Australian Style - Experiment Invite/Discussion

[wereprawn]

I thought Vegemite had yeast extract (cell walls removed). I don't think you can bring it back to life and culture it up. But if you could, that'd be a very Aussie beer.

Is the yeast used to make vegemite Aussie? Unlikely IMO. They would obtain the used lager yeast from large megaswill breweries wouldn't they?

 

[mje1980]

Baby kangaroos in the kettle?, goannas in the mash?

 

[verysupple]

Is the yeast used to make vegemite Aussie? Unlikely IMO. They would obtain the used lager yeast from large megaswill breweries wouldn't they?

That's a good point. But if we're taking the yeast origin as the defining factor then Vegemite isn't Aussie either. Try selling that idea. Nobody else will take responsibility for it.

 

[verysupple]

Baby kangaroos in the kettle?, goannas in the mash?

Let's keep it to the coat of arms; kangaroos and emus - both boiled obviously.

 

[Sippa]

Boiling the coat of arms was not the intended direction for the thread. I thought maybe it would rouse some serious thought for experimentation and development of some truly unique brew accredited to Australian home brew swillers.

 

[mje1980]

Why does there need to be another style?

 

[spog]

VB with Vegemite,Goanna oil,Koala piss,Kangaroo scrotum and crushed native seeds from Emu ****.
If an immigrant can drink a slab of it and keep it down they get free entry, welcome to Straya mate.

 

[dicko]

I can see the need for redefining the style.

There are a lot more Aussie hops available now that do provide a multitude of diversity with flavours.

The OP has a good point IMO.

If we choose to remember back just a little while the famous Smurto's Golden Ale was re defined within the classification from where he entered it into an English Pale Ale from memory.
It could not be classed as an Aussie Pale Ale and survive the scrutiny of the rules within the class guidelines.

So today a person could brew the same recipe with for example a single hop choice of one of the new Australian varieties and if push comes to shove, even use a CPA yeast (or WLP 009) but not comply because "it" doesn't fit the current description....

No wonder some of us never enter competitions. All these rules are made off our shores and for why???????

 

[Nizmoose]

I definitely think that some more Australian styles would be great, especially with hops like galaxy now available. One beer that always comes to mind is Stone & Wood Pacific Ale. I'm sure there will be people that disagree but when I looked up it's specs under style was "beyond classification" and I'd have to agree, I don't know what I'd class it as, and that made me a bit happy because it means someone in Australia has created something uniquely Australian in my personal opinion. What would people class Stone & Wood Pacific Ale as? And if nothing what style would you name to put it into?

 

[The Judge]

I definitely think that some more Australian styles would be great, especially with hops like galaxy now available. One beer that always comes to mind is Stone & Wood Pacific Ale. I'm sure there will be people that disagree but when I looked up it's specs under style was "beyond classification" and I'd have to agree, I don't know what I'd class it as, and that made me a bit happy because it means someone in Australia has created something uniquely Australian in my personal opinion. What would people class Stone & Wood Pacific Ale as? And if nothing what style would you name to put it into?

Just as the Bavarians drink wheat beer as a breakfast beer, so is the Stone & Wood Pacific Ale the perfect fruity Australian Breakfast Ale.
Wheaty, fruity, and well suited to our sunny mornings imo

 

[The Judge]

Actually - side note - a place in Perth called Gordon St Garage has been serving this as the sole beer on tap for a while now, and they're well known for their breakfasts. Perhaps it is already reputed as a good breakfast accompaniment.

 

[Sippa]

I definitely think that some more Australian styles would be great, especially with hops like galaxy now available. One beer that always comes to mind is Stone & Wood Pacific Ale. I'm sure there will be people that disagree but when I looked up it's specs under style was "beyond classification" and I'd have to agree, I don't know what I'd class it as, and that made me a bit happy because it means someone in Australia has created something uniquely Australian in my personal opinion. What would people class Stone & Wood Pacific Ale as? And if nothing what style would you name to put it into?

MMMMM.....mmmmmm........ Thats a tasty beverage! lets call it what it is.... a Pacific Ale.

My Bunny Boiler with Galaxy hops is something along the lines of a Pacific Ale, Much better than the Centennial version I did, It will become my house session ale, will try with something other than Amarillo next one.

 

[technobabble66]

Pacific Ale - very light grain bill (/malt flavour) with a strong impact of fruity hops, with a fairly light bittering.

What about:
Saisons - golden, red, brown or black. Malty or Hoppy. Given they are fermented at high temps. Seems an obvious choice for our climate.
Amp'ed up Lagers - red, brown or black lagers, and heavily hopped or malted. We already do the Minimal Flavour versions

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Saison seems smart enough.

Don't forget that if you listened to the podcast of the new BJCP guidelines, one of the key things that came out (other than how boring the bloke was to listen to) was that judges especially were too pedantic with styles and that 'good beers' should not be penalised for being not perfectly in style. As a result they opened up the style descriptions a fair bit and said "this is a guideline for judging a comp, not a holy bible of beer styles or of even categories".

What the styles allow for is to penalise faults and flaws, not make a certain hop or grain a flaw, if the end result is a good beer.

He also mentioned that this is really a response to what is being currently brewed. Red IPA/Black IPA are a style now - they never were but they became one. It's a reaction to what's being brewed, not a 'this is what you should be brewing' type scenario.

 

[Spiesy]

Don't know... Saison sounds pretty French to me

Aren't we making up a new style anyway?

 

[dicko]

I think that AABC could maybe broaden the horizon when it comes to the Australian Pale Ale Style to include beers like S&W Pacific Pale Ale, Fat Yak (before it was ruined) and many others that are now available.

 

[drewstertherooster]

I think Pacific Ale is one we can run with. Light grain bill, pale colour, good head retention. Sessionable, 4-5% abv, maybe you could go even lighter. Hop forward, majority of IBU's gained from late hopping, showcasing fruity characteristics of new Australian hop varieties such as Galaxy, Summer, Ella etc. As a 'Pacific' Ale, maybe NZ and even US (as if they don't get enough of a look in) hops could be used as well, for the same purpose. I used Wai Iti with Galaxy in my Pacific Ale and it complemented the passionfruit with a citrusy quality. Mmm. Maybe you could even add the pear-y flavours from the Coopers yeast?

Uses largely Aussie ingredients to produce a beer that's ideal for enjoying throughout the afternoon on a hot Summer day. How Aussie is that?

 

[technobabble66]

Don't know... Saison sounds pretty French to me

Aren't we making up a new style anyway?

or belgian, even

Nah - just say it with an ocker accent and put the word "mate" or "cobber" at the end of it:
"Straya Says-On, mate"

Or if you want to represent our multicultural population you could just try:
"Wog Beer, mate"

...Maybe this could be a new style:
Cobber Ale
Like a copper ale, but Australian.

 

[Spiesy]

or belgian, even

Saison (French, "season," French pronunciation: ​[sɛ.zɔ̃]) is a broadly defined pale ale that in modern versions is generally around 7% abv, highly carbonated, fruity, spicy (sometimes from the addition of spices), and is influenced by Saison Dupont Vieille Provision.[1] As a beer style it originated from beers brewed during the cooler and less active months in farmhouses in Wallonia, the French-speaking region of Belgium, and then stored for drinking by the farm workers during the summer months.

We're kind of both right, I guess.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Warm piss mate !

 

[Sippa]

I think Pacific Ale is one we can run with. Light grain bill, pale colour, good head retention. Sessionable, 4-5% abv, maybe you could go even lighter. Hop forward, majority of IBU's gained from late hopping, showcasing fruity characteristics of new Australian hop varieties such as Galaxy, Summer, Ella etc. As a 'Pacific' Ale, maybe NZ and even US (as if they don't get enough of a look in) hops could be used as well, for the same purpose. I used Wai Iti with Galaxy in my Pacific Ale and it complemented the passionfruit with a citrusy quality. Mmm. Maybe you could even add the pear-y flavours from the Coopers yeast?

Uses largely Aussie ingredients to produce a beer that's ideal for enjoying throughout the afternoon on a hot Summer day. How Aussie is that?

Lets call it an Australasian Ale then or an Oceanic Ale.

A dark version would be magic too. I was planning hopped up dark beer next so I might shoot for an Australasian influenced one. Galaxy as the bittering with an NZ hop for finishing, fermented with Coopers,

 

[mje1980]

This style is getting broader by the minute

 

[sponge]

There'll soon be as many Aus styles as there are now IPA's in the BJCP guidelines.

 

[barabool]

I know that most Aboriginal tribes used to make a 'damper' like bread before European colonisation. Would be interesting to see if native grains could be used as a type of specialised grain.
Just do a google search on 'Australian native grains'.
Now that would be unique. Now to find a 'native' hop bush.

Cheers

 

[Whiteferret]

There is an Australian native hop bush. Looks nothing like a hop plant so maybe it was used for bittering I have seen it alot in the nurseries in the last few years. Dodenea something.

 

[TimT]

Now to find a 'native' hop bush.

Google 'dodonae viscosae', (the sticky hop bush) or just do a search of this site. It's been mentioned a couple of times here. Not related to good old humulus lupus AKA hops but the taste is apparently similar.

 

[pajs]

IIRC, there is a section in one of the Cribb books on Australian native plants about things used in drinks, including for bittering. Maybe the Useful Wild Plants in Australia book? I will investigate further.

 

[TimT]

We've lost more than we ever knew we had. Keith Dunstan's book The Amber Nectar, ostensibly written to celebrate 100 years of CUB brewing in Australia, is actually something of a backhanded compliment, as it chronicles in a great lot of detail how Carlton bullied and bought out all its competitors and how styles in Australia have changed over the past century.

Essentially, towards the end of the 19th century there were over 300(!) independent breweries in Australia. For many of those early years, ale (rather than lager) was the favoured style - which seems sensible for brewing, considering the insane temperatures in many parts of the country.

Few drinks from that time seem to have remained; perhaps some brews that give an idea of the styles favoured then include Coopers Sparkling and Tooheys Old. (Though not sure if Tooheys Old is actually an ale(?), most of the CUB brews seem to be brewed on lager yeasts).

I often feel uncomfortable regarding BJCP guidelines, since they seem to be defined for the needs of competition, rather than as a way of recording traditional or popular styles. Competitions help you to refine your brews, of course, but to me the most important way to improve your brewing is to have a deep and intimate understanding of traditional styles and why they were brewed the way they were. If you know why other styles came into being, that gives you a good indication where and how you can make your own styles in the future.

 

[Toper]

Is the yeast used to make vegemite Aussie? Unlikely IMO. They would obtain the used lager yeast from large megaswill breweries wouldn't they?

Yep,I worked for the company that makes the stuff several years ago.The yeast extract came from Tooheys in Sydney,and it's 'cooked' for filling,around 80C, so nothing useable there.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I often feel uncomfortable regarding BJCP guidelines, since they seem to be defined for the needs of competition, rather than as a way of recording traditional or popular styles. Competitions help you to refine your brews, of course, but to me the most important way to improve your brewing is to have a deep and intimate understanding of traditional styles and why they were brewed the way they were. If you know why other styles came into being, that gives you a good indication where and how you can make your own styles in the future.

The BJCP felt the same, which is why they have historical styles and an attitude of "hey, brew a good beer, and the guidelines are wide enough for it now" with they 2014 revisions.

Certainly reading the pre-amble and listening to what was said at the AHBC by them indicates that their discomfort was a big reason for the revision.