Never Turn Off A Fridge

[wobblythongs]

The story.

Mate of mine is a refrigeration mechanic and he told me never turn off a fridge unless you have to, that was 10+ years ago apparently you always should have the fridge energized with power before the compressor boots. I have an old fridge instruction manual that backs his claim stating that if the cord is pulled and re plugged it wont restart the compressor for 6 minutes to protect itself.

Anyway I have just got back into HB after a 10 year break and want to change from the old tin can & sugar man to lets dazell our mates with all grain.
I feel about 85% confident I can pull this off with good results first time but hey you have to live and learn.

I picked up a Westinghouse fridge 450L for $70 re-sealed it so it works like a new one and now I want to make it run at 12-18C to make some larger.

The Question????
There are some threads in here about these new digital thermostats but the way they work defy what my mate told me But everyone thinks they are great.
Looking over really old threads in here I think the old way maybe the way I would rather go for the TS-040S not the Jay-car item http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=3644
They work out about the same price either way and that it's a simple thermostat change over without any wiring or power isolation to the fridge.

 

[Florian]

You can set the temp controllers so that they don't restart after a set amount of minutes. Mine stays off for at least five, but you can set it to 20 minutes or whatever you like.
That should solve your issue.

 

[InCider]

Mine is at 9 minutes. And I never turn the fridge off... and it hardly registers on the power usage device. Never opened the fridge apart from inserting or removing cubes!

 

[BenH]

Many people who frequent this forum use temp controllers for the fridge without problems (myself included) - and given you've got a $70 fridge it's not too much of a risk is it? You'll spend a lot more on other all grain equipment!

FWIW, I have a temp controlled fermentation fridge, and for my keg fridge I use a chest freezer which also uses a temp controller. No problems with either after 3 years. The fermentation fridge is an old rattler, but the chest freezer was a brand new westinghouse.

 

[rude]

Hey Insider you should post more often

You havent got the rest of the zip down have ya

 

[jakub76]

I want to make it run at 12-18C to make some larger.

That's too warm. If you're using real lager (not larger) yeast you will get best results fermenting at 10C for 7-10 days then ramping up to 12C-13C for the final few days.

 

[Bribie G]

That's too warm. If you're using real lager (not larger) yeast you will get best results fermenting at 10C for 7-10 days then ramping up to 12C-13C for the final few days.

Depends on the yeast, several German Breweries nowadays ferment at 13 degrees and let the beer drift up, then lager for a whole 10 days (woohoo) and still turn out a good drop, I wouldn't mind betting that their yeasts have a lot in common with S-189. I use this yeast at around 14 and make lagers to type.

 

[jakub76]

German Breweries nowadays ferment at 13 degrees and let the beer drift up

Yes but they're fermenting in giant conicals that create a lot of pressure or in giant open tanks...neither is anything like the plastic drum like we use. I agree with your point that temperature depends on the yeast strain - of course - but if someone is generalising to say they want to 'make lagers' then I'll generalise to provide a good, general temperature that will serve them well in their endeavours.

 

[michael_aussie]

The story.

Mate of mine is a refrigeration mechanic and he told me never turn off a fridge unless you have to, that was 10+ years ago apparently you always should have the fridge energized with power before the compressor boots. I have an old fridge instruction manual that backs his claim stating that if the cord is pulled and re plugged it wont restart the compressor for 6 minutes to protect itself.
.........
The Question????
There are some threads in here about these new digital thermostats but the way they work defy what my mate told me But everyone thinks they are great.
....

If your mate is right .... I'm not sure of that .... I'm sure I've plugged in friges before and they have started nearly immediately, but I could be wrong ....however, anyway ... if he is right and there is a 6 minute delay .. the worse that will happen is your fridge will start 6 minutes later than you actually want it to start.
As pointed out by others... the temp controllers usually have a built in delay for the same reason that your mate said.
In 6 minutes your brew shouldn't have drifted too far off temperature, unless you live in Innaminka and are brewing in a tin shed, and the fridge has shocking insulation.

As previosuly mentioned, give it a go, and watch your temperatures.
Maybe the inbuilt fridge thermostat might have enough range to allow you to plug it into mains directly (not through the controller) and use it to control the fridge. However, I'd try with the controller first. It would be ugly if the fridge wanted to cool while the controller wanted to heat, and you have both going at the same time.

I wish I could pick up a $70 going fridge.

 

[Wolfy]

There are so many people on these and other HB forums around the world that use a digital temperature controller attached to a fridge or freezer, that if they were any problem, if they broke fridges/freezers, or if fridges/freezers did not work after using them with a digital controller, then I'm certain we'd hear about it.

Each person is - of course - welcome to use whatever device they wish, but I'm happy with my digital temp controller, and it even has a compression delay setting which means it won't turn the fridge on/off too quickly thus most likely protecting it from whatever problems or issues may (or may not) have been a concern 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[InCider]

Hey Insider you should post more often

You havent got the rest of the zip down have ya

Haha... maybe at Xmas as my gift to the Brewerhood!

Fridges - my fridemated fridge will no doubt last longer than the newer ones (Kleenmaid, Fisher & Paykel) as the door is opened once a week at best. Sometimes less. There is far less load on the compressor, the seal and this will extend it's life. The Fridgemate fridge is about 20+ years old, and the others are just a couple...

 

[wobblythongs]

I don't like the idea of running another lead just to power the thermostat and having leads in and out of the fridge but after seeing this guys setup I reckon it could be nutted out to run off the fridges power and inside as well.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=241344

Just bought one for $52 delivered I'm sure if I go down to local L&H they should be able to sell me something insulated from condensation in the fridge.
Has anyone done a inside digital fix out?

 

[InCider]

I don't like the idea of running another lead just to power the thermostat and having leads in and out of the fridge but after seeing this guys setup I reckon it could be nutted out to run off the fridges power and inside as well.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=241344

Just bought one for $52 delivered I'm sure if I go down to local L&H they should be able to sell me something insulated from condensation in the fridge.
Has anyone done a inside digital fix out?

The thermostat thingy (fridgemate) is in the middle of the male and female ends of an extension lead. The fridge plugs to this, hence the power is controlled by the fridgmate, not the thermostat in the fridge. The fridgemate has a sensor that goes in the fridge. All you do is turn the fridge up and forget about it.

 

[Wolfy]

... but after seeing this guys setup I reckon it could be nutted out to run off the fridges power and inside as well.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=241344

Just bought one for $52 delivered I'm sure if I go down to local L&H they should be able to sell me something insulated from condensation in the fridge.
Has anyone done a inside digital fix out?

Use the search function on these forums, you'll find at least 4-5 threads with very detailed instructions and setups and all you need.

However, please realize that you are playing with 240V so unless you are totally sure about what you are doing (and/or willing to risk your life) then it's best to have them installed by a qualified professional.

 

[MaltyHops]

The story.

Mate of mine is a refrigeration mechanic and he told me never turn off a fridge unless you have to, that was 10+ years ago apparently you always should have the fridge energized with power before the compressor boots. I have an old fridge instruction manual that backs his claim stating that if the cord is pulled and re plugged it wont restart the compressor for 6 minutes to protect itself.

I did a pre-voc electrical/refrigeration course this year and the lecturer for
the fridgie part explained that compressor designs like the piston type typical
in most domestic fridges should not be turned off and on again too quickly.

When such a compressor is switched off during operation, it has a lot of
refrigerant in the liquid state in the piston chambers and starting the
compressor in this state is very hard on the compressor leading to burn
out if repeated too often. A delay of around 5 to 10 minutes is enough for
the liquid refrigerant to escape into the rest of the refrigeration circuit in the
vapour state and make it safe for the compressor to start again without
damage.

Most fridges are probably designed to prevent stopping and restarting the
compressor too quickly but some fridges might not be able to do this if power
is interrupted so the Tempmate type controllers have (configurable) delays
between cutting and re-providing power on the fridge/cooling channel to
ensure fridges don't stop and restart their compressors too quickly.

The delay can be removed for fridges that automatically delay compressor
restarts on power interrupts and set accordingly for fridges that don't have
the built-in delay. Fridges don't usually warm up very quickly anyhow so
leaving the factory default delay in controllers like the Tempmate works well
enough.

T.

 

[cdbrown]

If you've got the temp probe in the free air within the fridge then you could see enough rapid temp change when opening the door to cause the temp controller to switch on the fridge. However, if it's taped to the side of the fermenter, there's a large mass of fermenting beer which holds the temp quite well. You'll find that there's a long time naturally between when the temp controller shuts off the fridge to when it needs to turn it back on again. Takes a good while to warm up the fermenter those few degrees.

 

[Florian]

If you've got the temp probe in the free air within the fridge then you could see enough rapid temp change when opening the door to cause the temp controller to switch on the fridge. However, if it's taped to the side of the fermenter, there's a large mass of fermenting beer which holds the temp quite well. You'll find that there's a long time naturally between when the temp controller shuts off the fridge to when it needs to turn it back on again. _{Takes a good while to warm up the fermenter those few degrees}.

I prefer to have a constant ambient temp for most of the time, and therefore a constant beer temp, rather than waiting until my beer has warmed up 'those few degrees' and then try to cool it down again.

 

[np1962]

I prefer to have a constant ambient temp for most of the time, and therefore a constant beer temp, rather than waiting until my beer has warmed up 'those few degrees' and then try to cool it down again.

Your statement is incorrect with regards a constant ambient temp=constant beer temp.
As a beer ferments it produces its own heat. Your ferment temp can be many degrees higher than ambient. e.g. I have fermented with an ambient temp of 16C and the measured beer temp got as high as 24C.
Therefore you need to measure the temp of the beer itself to manage the ferment temp.
The simplest way is to tape your probe to the side of the fermenter and insulate it from the surrounding air temp.
More accurate measuring will require a probe into the fermenting beer itself.
Cheers
Nige

 

[MarkBastard]

If you tape it to the side of a fermenter you can get the best of both worlds as the probes temperature is influenced by the air temperature in the fridge as well as the temperature of the beer.

 

[Florian]

Point taken, Nige.
Was more thinking in terms of lagering for extended periods, where fermentation has ceased and no heat is produced, and therefore ambient temp equals beer temp.

I mostly brew lagers and usually set my temp control 2 degrees lower than my target temp for fermentation. Once active fermentation slows down I adjust the temp control accordingly.
My beer temp is never more than 2 degrees higher than the average ambient temp in the fridge with lagers, although I agree this might be different with ales and especially hefeweizens (which i have so far only fermented outside the fridge during the cooler Brisbane month).

With this in mind I still prefer to control the ambient temp, as it allows me to keep a more constant beer temp (with a few additional adjustments involved). Once the beer would warm up one or two degrees for the temp control to kick in, it takes a while to cool it down again, and I prefer to keep it as constant as possible.

As always, do whatever works best for you. There are many ways to achieve same or similar results.

Florian