My New Yeast Experiment

[Digger11]

Due to my inability to brew anything complex that is drinkable , I am going back to basics.

I am going to do 2 identical brews but use US-05 yeast for one, and Coopers can yeast for another.

Of my past 3 brews, the one that most preferred used the can yeast, the other two used US-05 and weren't as good (but I cannot blame it entirely on the yeast as the recipes were different).


Recipe will be very very basic. Coopers Real Ale Can, BE2, and Carb Drops. They are good fresh Kits as I buy from the 24hr Kmart in Burwood (Vic), so I know they have been stored at room temperature 24/7.

So I will report back to this thead in 8 weeks (I use a standard 3 weeks fermenting,1 week cold conditoning and 4 weeks in the bottle).

 

[black_labb]

most people find that a yeast other than a kit yeast will improve things alot. one thing that the kit yeasts are great at are dealing with high ferment temperatures. most reccomend 18-20*c for ale yeasts. how are you controlling the temp during fermentation?

i'd make sure to keep to similar if not the same temps for the brews. the coopers instructions will tell you between 21 and 27* or something like that, which is too high to ferment cleanly but will speed up the fermentation.

 

[Fireman Sam]

not trying to hijack your thread... I'm really keen to hear your results, cos I've got a similar query...

I've got my next batch ready to start, it's Coopers Mexican, 50/50 bag and Hallertau Hops (will most likely dry hop them straight into the fermenter)... but I was curious why they didn't recommend a different yeast, other than the 7gm Coopers under the lid job ?

 

[Wolfy]

I do not mean to discourage yoru experiment, however I think your logical is somewhat flawed. If you look at many threads around here, one of the best way that new-brewers can improve their beer is by the simple replacement of the kit-yeast with something more suitable combined with fermenting at an appropriate temperature for said yeast.

Yeast should be refrigerated to maintain it's best condition and shelf-life, even if the kits move off the shelf quickly at KMart, they have most likely been produced/warehoused/stocked/stored for quite some time before they get to the shop.

So I'd suggest you visit a LHBS (like G&G which is not too far away from you) and buy some of their dried yeast packs, they should have been kept in tip-top condition, will provide a very good variety for you to chose from - and should produce better results than the kit yeast in the vast majority of cases (especially if you also control the fermentation temps).

 

[Pennywise]

One thing about the Coopers kit yeast is it's quite tolerant to slightly higher temps and can handle a bit of temp fluctuation (sp?) without throwing too much crap at your brew. Specialty yeasts on the other hand tend to be more picky about how their handled, if you don't have good temp control then this may be part of the issue?
Another thing to consider is that maybe you just don't like the cleanliness of US-05, maybe you prefer a bit of esters. Personally I don't think theres anything wrong with the Coopers kit yeasts, so long as you get a fresh can it'll be fine. I brew with the Coopers yeast a fair bit, and recently I've been grabing a pack of that rather than US-05

 

[wynnum1]

My suggestion is to buy 2 cans of Coopers and use both yeasts in first brew and the second can reuse yeast cake from first brew and keep temperature around 18c i think they do not give enough yeast for when the temperature is lower.The other thing is the brew may need to be aged long enought to develop correct taste maybe over 6 months

 

[Digger11]

I have two fermentors so the batches will be brewed next to each other at identical temps. Pretty much perfect temps in Melbourne at the moment, with the help of a sleeping bag I pretty much get 20 degrees solid.

I bought Palmer's book on how to brew [and from reading these forums] understand how to do it correctly, i.e. low temps, good sanitation etc.

I do agree that 4-6 months aging does appear to improve most of my brews (more head, milder flavour-which I prefer, more bubbles).

I was going to buy the US-05 from G&G - can buy the Coopers Cans from there as well. Just thought that K-Mart 24/7 would store them at a more constant temp. At christmas when I last went to K-Mart they had just totally restocked with new Cans, and they all had close to 2 years to expiry - so I assume they are fairly fresh. Can't comment on their warehousing though.
Maybe I should buy Coopers cans that were made in Winter ?

 

[rendo]

Go for it Digger11,

Good experiment. Yes there are always ways to argue the toss of a coin, but this is still a good exercise and I will be most interested in the outcome.

(if you were brewing at high temps, then i'd say you'd have issues for sure, but keeping at it 20 will be good)

Rendo

Due to my inability to brew anything complex that is drinkable , I am going back to basics.

I am going to do 2 identical brews but use US-05 yeast for one, and Coopers can yeast for another.

Of my past 3 brews, the one that most preferred used the can yeast, the other two used US-05 and weren't as good (but I cannot blame it entirely on the yeast as the recipes were different).


Recipe will be very very basic. Coopers Real Ale Can, BE2, and Carb Drops. They are good fresh Kits as I buy from the 24hr Kmart in Burwood (Vic), so I know they have been stored at room temperature 24/7.

So I will report back to this thead in 8 weeks (I use a standard 3 weeks fermenting,1 week cold conditoning and 4 weeks in the bottle).

 

[flattop]

Having done a number of K&K's and moving to AG i can safely say for my personal taste US-05 gives a much better, faster, cleaner finish than Coopers kit yeast.
Another thing which US-05 helps reduce is the "green flavor" or Kit based beers.
Mex Cerveza in particular is very light in flavor and therefore it's easy to pick up any off flavors.
The best Mex i made was with US-05.

That said, i moved to AG where it all tastes better... Use the force, move to the darkside.

 

[jkirky]

it depends on what your after.

I have brewed coopers kits (aussie pale) with both us05 and the kit yeast.

I also have prefered the kit yeast with that can because the subtle esters thrown off contribute to the flavour. With 05 it was a little dull due to the low hop flavour. Consider it like a wheat beer. The yeast esters kinda improve and make the beer what it is.

However when extract brewing you often want to bring out the hops, hence us05 is much cleaner and better at producing the preffered style.

Horses for courses i guess...

 

[bum]

Many US-05 users report that 20C is pretty much the absolute highest temp they'd go. Perhaps consider keeping that brew a couple degrees cooler than the kit yeast (if there's some reason you don't want the kit yeast running at 18 or so)? No reason to try to make the conditions identical - you're using different yeasts, conditions are already not identical. No point concluding you don't like a cooler fermenting yeast by brewing with it warmer than it likes.

Another consideration is whether US-05 is an appropriate yeast for the style of beer you're making. Not much point to the test if not.

 

[jakub76]

Great idea and I look forward to your results. It will give you a good understanding of what the yeast is contributing to the overall flavour. US-05 is my pet ale yeast, I keep it in a jar in the fridge when it's not busy fermenting. The beauty of that yeast is that it contributes very little flavour, it's a very clean ale yeast.
It's good that you are trying it with a kit that has a bit of flavour, I wouldn't expect either brew to be a show stopper but at least you will get a feel for the yeast and the kit recipe.
The two things that had the biggest impact on the quality of my brews was moving to extract, boiling in the hops myself in 15 litres of wort so only diluting 60-40...full volume boil would be even better. And secondly temperature control, $40 on an eBay temp controller hooked up to a beer fridge and you can be within half a degree. Your beer will come out better and more consistent.
Then it's a matter of time till you go AG

 

[boingk]

and they all had close to 2 years to expiry - so I assume they are fairly fresh.

Yes. Kits generally have a 2 year 'best before' period, from the date they were canned. I find that the best cans are 3 months old or less, and I try not to pick anything up thats over 6 months old.

With 05 it was a little dull due to the low hop flavour.

Not sure what you're referring to here - US-05 is known to amplify any bitterness or hopping flavours due to its inherent ability to strip a fair whack of malt away and leave you with a dryer beer than, say, a Coopers kit yeast or S-04. You may be referring to esters (yeast-generated flavours) here perhaps?

Anyway, I would suggest that experimentation is not a bad thing - do it constantly if you can. I'd suggest an identical pair of batches each time, and do something different to one of them each time. A good example would be your recipes above, same yeasts, and dry hopping one of the batches. Or using specialty grains such as 250g worth of Crystal or 100g of Choc. That way you become more and more familiar with the changes that each addition will make.

And yes, AG is all its cracked up to be. Only reason I still do kits (albeit heavily altered with specialty grains, numerous hopping additions and specialty yeasts) is because I can't be assed to dick around in the garage for 4 hours with an AG setup. Mind you it was bloody good beer...

Cheers - boingk

 

[Digger11]

Thanks for all of the advice - but it is unlikely I will be posting the results here or anywhere else on this forum as I am leaving.

I was the victim of an unprovoked and particularly nasty personal attack by one of the users in another thread and do not see any point contributing anymore. He was a very nasty person.

Being a recent cancer survivor (non-hodgkins lymphoma)- life is too short for me to put up with fools.

Sorry.

 

[Mclovin]

ahh... just have another home brew digger! Its ok dont worry about it. Where not all fools!

 

[Yob]

Thanks for all of the advice - but it is unlikely I will be posting the results here or anywhere else on this forum as I am leaving.

I was the victim of an unprovoked and particularly nasty personal attack by one of the users in another thread and do not see any point contributing anymore. He was a very nasty person.

Being a recent cancer survivor (non-hodgkins lymphoma)- life is too short for me to put up with fools.

Sorry.

Dont let one stupid ignorent dumb ass person :icon_vomit: stop you learning a great deal and possibly making new friends (and swapping beer) there are MANY more of us here who you will find more supportive than derogotory mate.. chin up, chest out.. be proud

dont forget the swapping beer!!

Im sure the moderators will take appropriate action againsed any personal attacks mate.. hope to see you here soon

 

[AussieJosh]

Hope to see you back Digger!

Report unprovoked personal attacks mate! There just scum!

 

[bum]

If I recall correctly Digger Started his posting here with series of irrelevant, racist remarks.

And stay out.

 

[boobiedazzler]

Im interested in the outcome of your experimentation, its been something I have been meaning to do for ages. Hope you let whatever arguements pass, and post back with your results.

Dont worry about it, theyre just words on the internet. Forums are always full of conflicting personalities. And I suspect this place is often fuelled by one or two too many homebrews sometimes LOL

 

[NDH]

I've just done something very similar in terms of a side by side test of Coopers kit yeast and US-05. I'm doing a couple of Coopers Traditional Draughts, I've been told the Thomas Coopers range have quite a good yeast under the lid anyway.

Did one 8lt boil of Ringwood and Nelson Sauvin with a can of light malt and split it between the two fermenters then topped up with a can of Draught in each and pitched yeasts at almost identical temps.

Funnily I didn't bother proofing yeasts this time and as a result the US-05 is bubbling away nicely and formed a good Krausen while the kit yeast has done neither. Only pitched yesterday arvo so going to give it a little while before taking a SG but I will laugh if the 'hardy tolerant' kit is a dud and the US-05 survives considering my lack of temp control.

They're sitting at 20 degrees in an 18 degree room so pretty well bang on. Pitched at around 25 degrees which seems to be the go with kit yeasts to liven them up.

If Digger has had a change of heart I wont thieve his thread but if he has spat the chewy I'm happy to keep you posted on the results. Should be interesting to see if the extra few bucks a brew for US-05 is worth it.