My First Doppelbock

[Ross]

Was just about to make my first Bock, when the recipe for the "big brew day" took my fancy, so decided to go for a doppelbock instead. This is totally new territory for me, so any advice on recipe/mashing regime welcomed.

Hailbrau Dopplebock
Doppelbock
Type: All Grain
Date: 9/04/2007
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 38.41 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 70.3 %
2.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 23.4 %
0.50 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (25.6 EBC) Grain 5.9 %
0.03 kg Carafa III (Weyermann) (1034.3 EBC) Grain 0.4 %
45.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.50%] (90 min) Hops 17.5 IBU
30.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.50%] (40 min) Hops 9.6 IBU
2 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager
Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.079 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.7 %
Bitterness: 27.1 IBU
Est Color: 26.2 EBC

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 8.54 kg
Mash In 62.0 C 60 min
Raise temp to 70.0 C 30 min
Mash out 78c

cheers Ross

 

[blackbock]

Ross, you're more of a brewer than I am, but I can't see the need for Carahell in this recipe. That much Munich would be malty enough, and there definitely would be no need for additional colour either.

One thing I look out for with Doppelbocks is sometimes there can be minimal head formation, probably due to higher alcohol level. Don't know if you have experienced that problem, but I have.

good brewing!

 

[Jye]

Ross, you're more of a brewer than I am, but I can't see the need for Carahell in this recipe...

Same here, it always puzzles me when I see carahell/pils in big beers, Im under the impression there should be enough residual sugars that it isnt needed.

Check out the doppelbock SOTW on the green board.

 

[Steve Lacey]

Ross, I am sure that will work and give you a beer that fits the Dopplebock profile. It will, in fact, probably be a great beer. All I can say that I have had excellent results using just Munich, a pale malt (5:2 like you) and a dark crystal (300-400 g)-- I used caraAroma last time (thanks to David Bigfridge!).

Then, and I think this is the main secret, a double decoction and a long boil. Maybe the Carafa will make up for the decoction to some extent. But I'd still recommend that you at least go for one big, longish decoction for a mash-out boost, and definitley make sure you employ at least a 2-hour boil.

By the way, since when did "single infusion" involve mashing in at 62 for 60 min, raising to 70 for 30 min and then 78 for mashout? Actually, if you don't want to go into decoctions, you might be better with just a straight 66-68 single infusion, but it's really hard to say...I am a stickler for decoctions for authentic German lagers.

 

[Ross]

By the way, since when did "single infusion" involve mashing in at 62 for 60 min, raising to 70 for 30 min and then 78 for mashout? Actually, if you don't want to go into decoctions, you might be better with just a straight 66-68 single infusion, but it's really hard to say...I am a stickler for decoctions for authentic German lagers.

"single infusion" lazy in changing the Beersmith settings
I'm thinking along the liines of a straight infusion at 66c, but the recipe had step infusions at 40c, 62c, 70c & mash out at 78c. What is the real benefit of the 40c rest?

Cheers Ross

 

[Ross]

Same here, it always puzzles me when I see carahell/pils in big beers, Im under the impression there should be enough residual sugars that it isnt needed.

Check out the doppelbock SOTW on the green board.

The greenboard recipes seem to concur with using the crystal...

cheers Ross

 

[ozpowell]

Hey Ross,

I noticed some Mittelfrueh in your recipe and happened to be looking for that hop on craftbrewer yesterday. Do you have any available which aren't listed on your web site, or is this a private stash? If they're available, are they German?

Also, are you thinking of getting any Hallertau German Traditional? I've read a lot of good things about this noble hop and am dying to give it a whirl...

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[Tony]

I say use munich 1 with 15% munich 11 and decoction mash it.

mash in at 52 deg and imediatly pull a thick decoction (mostly grain with just enough liquid to make it stirable)

Gently raise its temp to 66 to 68 deg for 20 min and then gently bring it to the boil and simmer it for 20 min. Be careful not to scorch it cause it will if you leave it. Keep stiring.

Pour it back in the main mash to get 66 deg. Because you are decoction mashing you wont need a high mash temp.

let it sit for 45 min and then pill a thin decoction (liquid only) and bring it up to the boil and when its boiling, tip it back in for a temp of around 76 deg.

drain to kettle and sparge as normal.

Its easy.

All i use is a 2 ring gas burner on the floor with a pot big enough to hold what your boiling.

I know promash works out all your amounts ect for you...... not sure of beersmith.

this is what i have planned when i get around to brewing one....... will probably do one this winter

cheers

Doppelbock

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.10
Anticipated OG: 1.080 Plato: 19.37
Anticipated EBC: 27.7
Anticipated IBU: 26.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
49.4 4.00 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 18
24.7 2.00 kg. Weyermann Vienna Germany 1.038 7
12.3 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 1.038 24
12.3 1.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
1.2 0.10 kg. Weyermann Caraaroma Germany 1.034 350

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 4.20 20.0 60 min.
20.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 4.20 6.1 30 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP833 German Bock

 

[Ross]

Hey Ross,

I noticed some Mittelfrueh in your recipe and happened to be looking for that hop on craftbrewer yesterday. Do you have any available which aren't listed on your web site, or is this a private stash? If they're available, are they German?

Cheers,
Michael.

Straight Hallertau is Hallertau Mittlefrueh - It's German & available in plugs or pellets.

cheers Ross

 

[Ross]

I say use munich 1 with 15% munich 11 and decoction mash it.

Nah...too lazy Maybe one day

cheers Ross

 

[Steve Lacey]

After looking at the Brewboard topic I think that the two-step mash may be worthwhile to ensure you get a reasonably attenuative extract. I find the 62/70 for one hour/30 min a bit extreme, but maybe it is alright. I've never done one like that though. I'd probably go for 63 for 30 minutes and 68 or 69 until conversion. But like I said, I'm really in Tony's camp on the mash.

Also jumping into Tony's camp on yeast. The Saf will probably do the job quite well, but I'd like to go the extra mile if I had the choice. The last Dopplebock I did is just coming into condition for drinking now and is very tasty. I used the WLP Budvar yeast, mainly because it is all I had ready access to, but I was more than happy to use it given its ability to accentuate malt.

 

[Tony]

Nah...too lazy Maybe one day

cheers Ross

Ya sook

Its probably not so important as far as what mash schedule you use...... but i would recomend using the WLP833.

Its a fantastic yeast..... my fav yeast to date actually.

It will attenuate down really well but leaves a fantastic maltiness in the beer. I use it in my Classic American Pilsner..... it rocks :super:

cheers

 

[Ross]

Its probably not so important as far as what mash schedule you use...... but i would recomend using the WLP833.

So you tried the S-189 in a bock Tony?? I'm guessing not
As I sell the product, it makes sense to try it out in different brews - In a CAP it's outstanding, give it a try sometime

cheers Ross

 

[Kai]

The greenboard recipes seem to concur with using the crystal...

cheers Ross

I say bugger the green board and dump the crystal. I too fail to see the advantage in a beer the size of a doppelbock. My preference would lean to a smaller amount of a darker crystal. Other than that, I like the big brew day grist. What really boggles the mind though is a sub 30 IBU ross beer with only two additions and one hop variety

 

[Tony]

Was just about to make my first Bock, when the recipe for the "big brew day" took my fancy, so decided to go for a doppelbock instead. This is totally new territory for me, so any advice on recipe/mashing regime welcomed.

If ya dont want advice mate....... dont ask for it. :blink:

I was only trying to say what has worked very well for me in malty german lagers.

I can see your point though........ let us know how it goes.

I will have to try it one day...... i have gone back to dried yeasts latly, but i still love the WLP833.

cheers

 

[Ross]

I say bugger the green board and dump the crystal. I too fail to see the advantage in a beer the size of a doppelbock. My preference would lean to a smaller amount of a darker crystal. Other than that, I like the big brew day grist. What really boggles the mind though is a sub 30 IBU ross beer with only two additions and one hop variety

What do you reckon Kai, switch to 300gm or caraaroma?

Cheers Ross

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Ross, would like to hear how that yeast goes in your Dopplebock. Are you trying the dried yeast due to ease of use?
Any chance you could split the batch and use Wyeast 2206 or Whitelabs 833 alongside the 189?

I think your grist looks fair. Good luck.

C&B
TDA

 

[Ross]

Ross, would like to hear how that yeast goes in your Dopplebock. Are you trying the dried yeast due to ease of use?
Any chance you could split the batch and use Wyeast 2206 or Whitelabs 833 alongside the 189?

I think your grist looks fair. Good luck.

C&B
TDA

Ease is one reason - but more the fact that I like to be able to offer advice to people buying it. Works great in an Oktoberfest, so hoping it'll handle the bock ok.
Which do you prefer - original girst or with the lesser caraaroma?

Cheers Ross

 

[Ross]

Finally got to put this one down today...Made a few changes after the feedback & added The NS for bittering after trying an excellent Schwarzbier by Aussie Claret, featuring the same hop. Not one I'd have thought of in a dark beer.

Carbrook Dopplebock

Type: All Grain
Date: 9/05/2007
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Brewer: Ross
Boil Size: 38.41 L
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 58.1 %
3.00 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 34.9 %
0.40 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 4.7 %
0.20 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 2.3 %
27.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (60 min) Hops 26.5 IBU
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc
2 Pkgs CraftBrewer Swiss Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %
Bitterness: 26.5 IBU
Est Color: 36.7 EBC
Mashed at 66c - Single infusion Batch sparge

 

[Kai]

Sorry, missed this the second time around. 300g of Caraaroma would have been fine, 400g will be fine too. I reckon the important thing will be that you get the sort of attenuation you're after. To me 1.021 is still pretty stonkin' high even for an OG of 1.080.

Either way it might come out nice right away or it might need a bit of age on it to dry it out and tame down any rampant maltiness. Let us know how it turns out.