Multi-rest Mashing

[Dazza_devil]

G'day Brewers,
I haven't done an AG yet but just beginning to investigate the process in more depth. I'm wondering what the general concensus is on multi-rest mashing. Is it worthwhile and when is it worthwhile? How many brewers use this method?
Cheers

 

[Supra-Jim]

Hi Boagsy,

multi-rest mashing has it's place in certain styles (wheats is one i can think of), however you'll find that for the majority of beers a single infusion/single temp mash will be more than sufficient. Especially if you're new to AG a single infusion is all you need to worry about.

Different enzymes are activated at different temps (i think) and multi-rests can allow you to control your wort profile in more detail. try www.howtobrew.com for a better/more detailed explaination.

AFAIK a lot of commerical breweries (James Squires is one that springs to mind) use the single infusion mash.

Cheers SJ

 

[Fourstar]

AFAIK a lot of commerical breweries (James Squires is one that springs to mind) use the single infusion mash.

My understanding was they do a protein rest and then a two step saccharification.

E.g. 50 deg protein for 15 mins then the saccharification at 60 deg, held for 15 mins then slowly raised to 70~ over a period of say 40 mins and held again for 25 mins.

Just so they get a balance of A and B Amylayse

 

[Hogan]

Boagsy - the majority of brewers who use a single step infusion mash do so because their equipment wont allow for anything else or it is just that it is expedient to do it this way rather than multi temp steps.

In order to do multi-step rests you have to have the means of controlling the heat either by direct firing of the mash tun or decoction mashing. I have a motorised paddle in my tun and the tun is heated by direct gas. I can therefore choose to do as many or as few rests that I desire for the style of beer I am brewing. I am still experimenting on exactly what rest temps and times are best but I am getting there. To be able to control the mash temp from 50c for a protein rest up to 78c for a mashout has got to be beneficial IMO. I also have the time and the equipment to do the job which is not always the case with HB'ers.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[raven19]

In addition to posts above, if you plan on using say 20% or higher of unmodified grain (including wheats) then a circa 50 degree protein rest can be beneficial.

A HERMS or RIMS system will help with this immensely. I have to do a decoction if wanting to lift temps, as I use an esky for my MT.

 

[jonocarroll]

Boagsy - the majority of brewers who use a single step infusion mash do so because their equipment wont allow for anything else or it is just that it is expedient to do it this way rather than multi temp steps.

In order to do multi-step rests you have to have the means of controlling the heat either by direct firing of the mash tun or decoction mashing.

:blink:

Is there something wrong with adding hotter water to raise the mash temp? That's what I do. If you do your protein rest thick, you can recover a 'normal' thickness at sac. temp.

Decoction mashing is completely different to a multi-step mash. It's not just about raising the temperature.

To be able to control the mash temp from 50c for a protein rest up to 78c for a mashout has got to be beneficial IMO. I also have the time and the equipment to do the job which is not always the case with HB'ers.

I have no problems starting with a 40-50*C rest, raising to sac. temp, then mashout. 3V setup.

Have I missed something, or are you implying that you are able to do something that others somehow aren't?

 

[Dazza_devil]

No Worries. The main reason I was wondering is because I haven't got the gear yet and thought I may need a specific setup to allow multi-rest mashing if recquired.
I understand that having an initial stiff mash and adding more water at each step to raise the temp can be carried out with an esky mash-tun. I'm guessing it would need to be bigger for this purpose.
I reckon I would start out with single infusion but definitely would progress to multi-rest when the need arises. So either a 2V or 3V, HERMS or RIMS system would allow me to make more use of multi-step mashing by carefully adding direct heat whilst stirring (motorised or by hand)? What's the best system for this purpose?

 

[Supra-Jim]

My understanding was they do a protein rest and then a two step saccharification.

E.g. 50 deg protein for 15 mins then the saccharification at 60 deg, held for 15 mins then slowly raised to 70~ over a period of say 40 mins and held again for 25 mins.

Just so they get a balance of A and B Amylayse

Going from my memory when the Melb Brewers had (i've forgotten his name) brewer from JS give a little presentation. I recall him making a comment about single infusion mashes being standrd practice.

Cheers SJ

 

[Hogan]

Have I missed something, or are you implying that you are able to do something that others somehow aren't?

QB. No implication there. Yes I am able to do things with my system that others can't. Simply because they have different setups.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[RdeVjun]

No Worries. The main reason I was wondering is because I haven't got the gear yet and thought I may need a specific setup to allow multi-rest mashing if recquired.
I understand that having an initial stiff mash and adding more water at each step to raise the temp can be carried out with an esky mash-tun. I'm guessing it would need to be bigger for this purpose.
I reckon I would start out with single infusion but definitely would progress to multi-rest when the need arises. So either a 2V or 3V, HERMS or RIMS system would allow me to make more use of multi-step mashing by carefully adding direct heat whilst stirring (motorised or by hand)? What's the best system for this purpose?

First, define "best"! What are your performance criteria- cost, ease-of-use, simplicity, versatility, shiny-bling-factor, etc?

Also, I can, and have done so in fact, achieve multi- stepped mashes with BIAB too, be it through decoction or direct heating. BIAB is a great way to get started with an AG career, for less than 50 clams and knocks out some pretty amazing beers with relative ease.

 

[Dazza_devil]

My understanding of the best would remove cost and bling from the equation. I want the most efficient, easiest to use and most precise in it's control. I hate to say it but I'm a perfectionist when it comes to doing anything, bordering on OCPD.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Well, another area that hasn't been mentioned is acid rest, really only used in very few traditionalist lager breweries. In very brief terms, the long kilning process given to pale malt deactivates phytase (where pale lager malt is rich in phytin containing both calcium and magnesium, and the enzyme phytase). It means pale ale brewers typically rely on calcium (chloride or gypsum) to adj mash ph. Yes, I've acid rested a few of my "going for award-winning" lagers over the years (and it's no harder than any other step, although you are actively monitoring ph for target) but these days I'm confident with calc chloride for correct adj of our pilsen-like melb. water.

I throw it out there in case you're wanting to test the "whole-hog" of step mashing.

Hope helps,
reVox

 

[Fourstar]

Going from my memory when the Melb Brewers had (i've forgotten his name) brewer from JS give a little presentation. I recall him making a comment about single infusion mashes being standrd practice.
Cheers SJ

Oh, im just going off what was implemented in Louisiane Brewhouse in Vietnam by Sean Symons. As far as i knew he was following mashing regimes as used in JS. Maybe things have changed

 

[Bribie G]

I successfully did a protein rest then a sach. rest with BIAB in June with a Bohemian Pilsener. I haven't done a lager since, as that single beer tied up my brewery for frign' weeks, but now I have a kickarse lagering fridge I might just try that next time, as well as a further application of heat to do a mashout step as suggested in another thread today.

 

[Hefty]

Slightly :icon_offtopic: , but still related:
Is there a simple/rough/ballpark way to determine an appropriate single infusion mash temp from a recipe that asks for a beta amylase rest at, say, 60*C and an alpha amylase rest at 70*C? (I'm sure I'll get to mutli-rests soon enough but single infusion is good enough for me for now)
Will it give markedly different results or is it the sort of thing that a blindfolded beer judge couldn't pick in a side-by-side tasting?

I know most people suggest around 67*C as the middle of the range between body and fermentability but I was just wondering if there is a more accurate way than just "oh, a couple of degrees less for a drier finish or a couple higher for more body"?
The main reason I ask is I've just gotten into AG as well and I've been looking at some of Palmer's recipes from "How To Brew". All of his all grain versions are all based on multi-rest mashes. He explains single infusion and multi-rest mashing both in detail, suggests single infusion is perfectly adequate for over 90% of beers but doesn't suggest a single infusion temp option for his recipes.

Jono.

 

[Zwickel]

I do stepped mash every time I brew. Because this topic has been discussed many times, I did a comparison stepped/single infusion mash once and wrote down the result in a blog here on AHB:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/blog...hp?showentry=15

:beer:

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I do stepped mash every time I brew. Because this topic has been discussed many times, I did a comparison stepped/single infusion mash once and wrote down the result in a blog here on AHB:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/blog...hp?showentry=15

:beer:

Yes every time is a step mash for me tonly because I have too much spare time like you .See you in soon I hope.Then we can step mash together.Better you step mash before I visit and them we can build back the beer I drink.
GB

 

[Zwickel]

Nev, it seems to me that the steps you do are more intended to build up your brewery :icon_chickcheers:

Hope you have your brewery running when we arrive, could be possibly March next year.
Couldnt imagine anything better than to do a brew together..... ahem...and drink two or five beers .....

sorry for being off topic

:icon_cheers:

 

[Batz]

Yes every time is a step mash for me tonly because I have too much spare time like you .

I also step mash every brew these days, it only adds around one hour to brew days and if you have a HERMS why not use it?

Batz

 

[Hefty]

I do stepped mash every time I brew. Because this topic has been discussed many times, I did a comparison stepped/single infusion mash once and wrote down the result in a blog here on AHB:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/blog...hp?showentry=15

:beer:

Awesome, thanks Zwickel!
I did try a search but I guessed I noobed out on picking the right search terms :unsure:
I'm still searching for a single infusion compromise for now but I definitely will move to multi-rest mashes once I've got a few more AG's under my belt and I've ironed the kinks out of my system.

HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
Jono.