Motoring Millmaster Part01 - Dismantle The Washingmachine

[pdilley]

i spoke to my father today (technition of 40 years including fridges, washing machines, tvs, vcrs, dvds, you name it) the contact that has 2 poles (the bottom one in your pics) is the start winding contactor and the top one is an overload one if the motor draws to much current it disconects the power and saves the day!! (or motor i should say)

Perfect, thanks for all that
I've written up about 4 pages of notes, drawings and theories of the operation to give to a motor winder for verification. I had the top down as overload and bottom down as starting.

All I need to figure out is the top overload is Red and Red/White coil which is not connected to the triangle. Therefore I thought this coil was the Rotor and the triangle represents the windings in the Stator. That means however that once energized, three coils are working. The 6Ohm rotor, and both the 11Ohm and 8Ohm stator coils. Still does not tell me how two-speeds are achieved yet nor what that Black wire to inductive pickup over a winding coil does. Few more thinks and I may have it with your help and everyone elses input already provided above.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

Motor is Running!

But not using my drawings

As I suspected you can only measure total resistance behind two wires but you may end up with more than one coil behind the wires.


This is a Square Pole AC Induction motor with Inductive Start (no capacitors!)

The Inductive Pickup is really an Inductive Overload Protector. And a Cheezy one at that. By the time it comes into play your motor will already be fried according to the AC motor rewinder.

What we thought was the overload protection Thermal Switch was the Starter Coil Disconnect Thermal Switch.

What we thought was the starter thermal switch is the Two-Speed Select Switch -- but we won't be using that as we want to run the motor at full speed.

To reverse the speed of the motor simply reverse the starter coil colours around in the connection to Neutral and to Active.

I got the full details on the internal windings of this motor and have already got out the 3 finger puller and removed the 3" and 3 1/4" pulley sheaves from the motor. I took advantage of the time it was running to put some sandpaper up and down the shaft and then steel wool to pick up most of the rust. Granted, its only cosmetic as the shaft section over the sheaves has no rust.


I have even created a pretty block diagram of the motor details for anyone else wishing to get the Simpson Delta 10 motor powering the grain mill and not put up with the Bullshit that Simpson Australia wants to pull.

View attachment Simpson_AC_Motor.pdf

You can now even completely rewind the motor from scratch if it ever burns out (just about never going to occur) when using it to power your grain mill.


Enjoy.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

FORGOT TO ADD


MOTOR SHAFT SIZE = 5/8"



Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

Last measurement is in.

Got an optical tach on this motor. When not under load it bounces between 1470-1500 RPM ranges.

MOTOR SPEED RATING = 1470 RPM

As such I think it would be wiser with the speed to get a larger pulley wheel at 12" (instead of 10") for the MillMaster and get a smaller 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" wheel for the Simpson AC Motor. That will make it easier to get down to the 150 RPM range to drive this motor at.

Alternatively some 3L belts will sit lower. I have seen some 1 1/2" motor wheels with an internal pitch of only 1.05" when using the 3L belt but closer to 1.35" with the 1A. So you can get some more reduction with belt choice if your pulley wheel will accept the smaller width 3L belt as well as the 1As.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

Thanks to Sammus I have a custom 12" wheel at 12mm and keyed for the MillMaster and 1 1/4" wheel at 5/8" with conical tipped set screw and a 58" belt on the way. Should be here tomorrow which gives me the weekend to work on the mill bench thats already 80% built.

This should be the goer, estmated a 475mm distance centre-point to centre-point of both shafts.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Renegade]

Pete did you end up recording the 'beats' so you could determine the RPM ? That was a most impressive suggestion.

 

[pdilley]

I used to build model airplanes so I remember that I had my digital optical RPM tachometer.

I figured I'd use that instead.

It works a treat in sunlight but under fluorescent lights at night it picked up the high speed flickering of the lights and kept giving me 3000 RPM from a 2-bladed Propeller


In sunlight it worked normal again.

Could still do the slap recording with laptop method as it would have worked at night under the Fluros! hehe


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

As expected the Pulleys arrived in just 1 day from Australian Pulley Company.
Hot from the forge

The machining is exact. The locking key fit the pulley wheel perfectly. The key (supplied by MashMaster with their MillMaster mill) did not even fit their own Mill!
Dodgy machining when your own Mill does not fit the parts you ship with your own mill.
Yet another in a long line of Dodgy-ness complaints about the design or workmanship on this mill.
It's obviously too hard for the Chinese factory guy to shove the key in the slot he just cut and see if it actually fits before calling his milling job done.

APC +1 to date
MashMaster -5 to date :angry:

I will have to remedy that.
For now the key is out.

For now an exact fit even though APC is far away and has never seen the Mill good job guys.

I went with the 12" pulley wheel as 10" is just cutting it way too fine in transmission reduction to get the Mill RPM down to 150RPM from the washing machine motors 1470 RPM.


From the rear.


I got a 1A belt and a 1 1/4" pulley wheel for the washing machine motor that you can see in the background of the last photograph.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[spog]

As expected the Pulleys arrived in just 1 day from Australian Pulley Company.
Hot from the forge

The machining is exact. The locking key fit the pulley wheel perfectly. The key (supplied by MashMaster with their MillMaster mill) did not even fit their own Mill!
Dodgy machining when your own Mill does not fit the parts you ship with your own mill.
Yet another in a long line of Dodgy-ness complaints about the design or workmanship on this mill.
It's obviously too hard for the Chinese factory guy to shove the key in the slot he just cut and see if it actually fits before calling his milling job done.

APC +1 to date
MashMaster -5 to date :angry:

I will have to remedy that.
For now the key is out.

For now an exact fit even though APC is far away and has never seen the Mill good job guys.
View attachment 29535
I went with the 12" pulley wheel as 10" is just cutting it way too fine in transmission reduction to get the Mill RPM down to 150RPM from the washing machine motors 1470 RPM.


From the rear.
View attachment 29536

I got a 1A belt and a 1 1/4" pulley wheel for the washing machine motor that you can see in the background of the last photograph.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

looks good bp,what did the pulley set you back....cheers.....spog.......

 

[pdilley]

Custom forged pulley 12" with 12mm hole and 4mm key cutting on the lathe. $54.55
Stock standard pulley 1 1/4" with 5/8" hole for the motor. $4.54
VBelt, 58" 1A. $13.64

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[absinthe]

the key didnt fit on mine ether (but i didn't use it anyway) and the adjusters arnt the same, one dot is further in than the other for the same spacing.

i hope your motor has abit more guts than mine.. if not you might want to be able to lift the tension off the belt to start her rolling then "cluch" the mill in on the belt

 

[pdilley]

1/2 Horse Power if I remember my visit to the Rewinder properly.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There is NO WAY that motor is star delta......Star Delta configs are for 3 phase motors, where each winding has its own phase...

Yes it is a squirell cage induction motor, with , maybe, an extra winding for startup

 

[pdilley]

There is NO WAY that motor is star delta......Star Delta configs are for 3 phase motors, where each winding has its own phase...

Yes it is a squirell cage induction motor, with , maybe, an extra winding for startup

As in the above posts we figured out what it is already. A square pole inductive start motor. We have all thr coils and wiring patterns needed for running it in the pdf available for download.

We've since moved on to transmissions

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[porky]

What you mean 'we'

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

As expected the Pulleys arrived in just 1 day from Australian Pulley Company.
Hot from the forge

The machining is exact. The locking key fit the pulley wheel perfectly. The key (supplied by MashMaster with their MillMaster mill) did not even fit their own Mill!
Dodgy machining when your own Mill does not fit the parts you ship with your own mill.
Yet another in a long line of Dodgy-ness complaints about the design or workmanship on this mill.
It's obviously too hard for the Chinese factory guy to shove the key in the slot he just cut and see if it actually fits before calling his milling job done.

APC +1 to date
MashMaster -5 to date :angry:

I will have to remedy that.
For now the key is out.


From the rear.
View attachment 29536

I got a 1A belt and a 1 1/4" pulley wheel for the washing machine motor that you can see in the background of the last photograph.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

Key.... what key? I bought mine a while ago and there was no key included. Not that it matters by the sound of it.



You mentioned earlier, gearing it down to 150rpm. Is that spec the one recommended by the designer? I have looked through ( but maybe not thoroughly enough) the Mashmaster site and can't find the recommended rpm's I currently use an old Valleymill that recommends a speed of no more than 300rpm. The millmaster is a far more robust creature than the Valley.

BYB

BYB

 

[porky]

Key.... what key? I bought mine a while ago and there was no key included. Not that it matters by the sound of it.



You mentioned earlier, gearing it down to 150rpm. Is that spec the one recommended by the designer? I have looked through ( but maybe not thoroughly enough) the Mashmaster site and can't find the recommended rpm's I currently use an old Valleymill that recommends a speed of no more than 300rpm. The millmaster is a far more robust creature than the Valley.

BYB

BYB

I bought one not long ago and there was no key with it either. I didn't use one anyway.
Made an adapter with two 4mm set screws that go into the key slot.

Mine runs 200 RPM and works great at that speed. I see no reason it couldn't go 300.

Cheers,
Bud

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Trust me not to read the whole thread h34r:

As in the above posts we figured out what it is already. A square pole inductive start motor. We have all thr coils and wiring patterns needed for running it in the pdf available for download.

We've since moved on to transmissions

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

Hey guys,

Let me see if I got everything,

Ducat, no worries, the thread is long and thick with details so its easy to miss. The delta drawing was based upon resistance measurements and didn't make sense for as you say its a 3-Phase AC power diagram. There are two coils in series that can be interchanged so thats what is throwing the measurements to best guess drawing. Standard rule applies, never consider an AC motor sussed without consulting someone in the rewinding profession.

The MillMaster may have some key supply issues? Mine came with some tape under the top styrofoam cover on the mill in the box. Under the tape is a 4mmx4mm square locking key for the drive shaft to the Mill. Obviously it does not fit the key way on the mill's drive shaft because that is asking too much.

The 12" wheel for the Mill and 10x transmission reduction ratio to the motor was chosen because there is no set official answer on optimum mill RPM for this mill. The only mill manufacturers that provided RPM data had small rollers. Their RPM ratings are a lot higher, and their limiting factor is the RPM range at which the grain starts to bounce around off the rollers instead of being pulled through. That said, the majority opinion when I asked was 100-150RPM. There are all sorts of anecdotal opinions that lower RPM provides a better crush. I rang Mashmaster and left a question and number about the mill RPM and was never given a call back - obviously you have to be a ******* to not spend 36 cents on a return call to secure a $300 purchase (is that now -6 on the list?) so the answer is still unknown. That is why 12" wheel was selected and 150 RPM was targeted because logically if you start with 150 RPM you can always buy bigger pulley wheels for your motor which are quite inexpensive and increase the RPM as you see fit. It is a lot more difficult to go in the opposite direction when your motor pulley wheel is already 1 1/4". The smaller wheels for the motor are under $10, getting different larger wheels for the mill is $50+ so it makes more sense to go this way.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Sammus]

BP: you may wany to try turning the pulley around. I have a 10" and have the the pulley wheel closer to the mill body. I was a little sketchy of the belt tension require to grip the 1.25" pulley might put a fair lateral load on the millmaster shaft, so I wanted the wheel as close to the mill as possible. It only just fit though, with the set screw near the end of the shaft and the pulley spokes clearing the adjusting knob by 10mm or less.

And yeah, my key didnt fit, I just filed it down to 4mm. And my adjustment knobs are out too.