Melbourne Microbreweries Showcase At Fed Square

[Belgrave Brewer]

Yep, everyone has a different opinion.

I was also a bit disapponted with the showcase.

Looking back at my notes, it looked like my favorites were in the dark beers and a lot of that has to do with me not being a hophead either. Yeah, seems that most of the Pales are over hopped for my liking. (I do like Little Creatures Bright Ale, which is very hop-py by my standards, but is well balanced as does not put a hop flower up your nose every time you take a sip. No problem drinking several of these, where a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is have one and move on.)

Emerald Hill Pale Ale and Wheat were amazing at the showcase 4 months ago, but were different this time, and also VERY different in the bottle just purchased last week then on tap at the showcase. I've also been to their friday night gig where they open up to the public, and had the end of one keg that was good and the start of a new keg which was not. No consistency from these guys yet, but they are new on the block and I'll give them a go again in the future.

What's Brewing - my question exactly. Not sure what they put in their Porter, but my guess is a stale coin from the pocket of a night porter at the end of a days work. Sorry to be so harsh, but you just can't sell this to the public.

I did like the Temple Brewing Pale Ale and thought the Temple Saison was a nice drop. Southern Bay Brewing Schonbrauhaus Lager was also nice.

Standouts for me were Red Ducks Porter and Holgate Winter Ale (also a Porter?)

Love to see all the differences in palette on this post.

BB

 

[Wortgames]

Each to their own, hey? I spent most of my time there complaining about the general lack of hops. WortGames, can you give an example of a non-IPA which you considered too hoppy?

I actually stopped writing 'too hoppy' next to the beer names because I was doing it to just about all of them. A Bock, for example, should be a malty beer with just enough hop bitterness to balance that. It shouldn't be yet another vehicle for big hop bitterness. The same goes for brown ale, and while pale ales can legitimately run the gamut from almost no discernible hop character to IPA, it seems that here in Australia pale ales are all bunched up near the hoppy end and will inevitably feel the need to try and 'prove something' with their hops. A porter also shouldn't require excessive hop bitterness, as it has the roasted malt/barley to help balance any sweetness and it is relatively well attenuated anyway. Why then the need for the waxy back-of-the-throat taint from excess hop content?

It strikes me that many brewers are choosing to brew 'English' styles, but have never actually tasted them and are perhaps going instead by the American version or by their own perception of what the style SHOULD be.

When I say 'hoppy' I'm actually referring more to what I perceive as an excessive hop bitterness rather than to hop aroma or flavour. To be honest I don't care all that much about hop aroma or flavour, they are somewhat secondary to the prime objectives of balance and mouthfeel IMHO. It may be that you are seeking bigger hop flavour and aroma, and are (like most people, apparently) not averse to high base bitterness levels. I don't think we are necessarily of opposing opinions, just seeking different things which the current standard of brewing struggles to satisfy (although I have to say I didn't consider the Red Duck beers to be any less bitter than the others - I tried the Amber and the Porter, and both struck me as having the same cheap-bitter taint).

<rant>

It may have become a particular grudge of mine, but it strikes me as 'immature' of brewers to think that large doses of hops (however early in the boil) equal good beer. You can go for 'big' hops by all means, but if you do that then you really need 'big' malt to carry it off, and few (if any) Aussie microbrews really have that. I grew up in the UK and my tastebuds were formed on what I would consider skillfully brewed ales, where malt and hop characters dance a little tango, at the hands of the brewer as 'puppeteer'. The prime objective of the brew is to satisfy, and it does this through balance of flavours, quality mouthfeel and length on the palate. Then there are the subtleties like malty or hoppy flavours and aromas that are the icing on the cake, the brewer's own little stamp of individuality.

A brewer should first learn to walk before they try to run. The skill in brewing is to FIRST perfectly balance malt and hop character, and THEN to deliberately and subtly skew that balance to create the profile they seek. It just strikes me that so many of these microbreweries never seem to bother learning the art of balance, and instead just go for a 'cheap hit' of hops time after time, as if that's all it takes to make a good beer. It's one-dimensional, predictable and unsatisfying.

<flame suit>

I also wonder whether ingredients have something to do with it. It strikes me that brewing in the Aussie microbrewery scene is all about using a grist almost entirely made up of pale Aussie malts, with a few specialty malts thrown in for colour, and timed additions of generally high-alpha pellets. 'Bitterness first (just use anything, you won't taste it, we just need the alphas) then later we'll throw in a few handfuls of assorted pellets for flavour and aroma'. This seems like a very modular, piecemeal approach, brewing-by-numbers, and I'm not sure you can make a truly great beer in this fashion. I think you need to use large percentages of the 'right' malts, perhaps even sacrifice an efficiency point or two, and I'm not convinced that pellets are the wonder product we're led to believe either. I doubt many of the world finest breweries use them. Yes I know that European malts are expensive, and yes I know that European, low-alpha hop flowers are expensive and difficult to get, but that doesn't mean the substitutes are giving us the best results.

</flame suit>
</rant>

So I hate to sound negative, I do love the fact that microbrewing is gaining strength in this country, but I also think we have a long long way to go. I think the lack of discerning customers is allowing slack brewers to get away with slack brews, and I find that a bit frustrating.

"Shows signs of improvement, but could do much better".

 

[Stuster]

I'm not sure that pellets are the wonder product we're led to believe either. I doubt many of the world finest breweries use them.

Just wanted to pick at that idea a bit. You might have a point, but I personally haven't been able to tell from a beer if it's been made with pellets, plugs or flowers. There seem to be plenty of good breweries around who do use pellets (along with others sticking with tradition). Just to illustrate.

England - Fullers use pellets. From here.

Germany - Diebels Alt. From here.

Again, just playing devil's advocate.

It's fascinating how different people have such different reactions to the beers at this festival.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

i knew i'd seen you there wortgames!

you were that guy with the long beard standing on the corner out front of Y+J yelling at people

just kidding, good rant :beerbang: especially about just use any hop for bitterness as long as we get the high alpha, i copt that one when i first started brewing from the liquorcraft guys in oakley.

anywho IMO there kind of catering to what the larger amount of beer nerds seem to be calling for these days and thats overly hoped ales and "extreme beers" it's all an american influence as you can tell by the over use of american hops in most of these beers.

i liked most the beers there but do agree that there was a hell of a lot of room for improvement and maybe some more variety (ie. different styles) would have been nice too.

-Phill

 

[Wortgames]

Hehehe yep that was probably me :beerbang:

I think my objection to pellets is really just an objection to that 'modular' approach to beer construction. Pellets are processed, for industrial convenience, and 'useless' parts of the hop cone are thrown out in the process. This seems like a gross indignity for such a noble ingredient, and I particularly object to seeing glasses full of different hop pellets on display with brewers telling drinkers "this is what hops look like". I generally don't use pellets, I feel far more comfortable with flowers or plugs. It may well be that pellets are 'just as good', but I think there's a philosophy involved. If you are happy to use preprocessed, condensed ingredients then why brew all-grain at all?

I also don't feel that 'timed' hop additions are the best way to achieve a smooth, balanced bitterness. If you are going to divide your hop additions into distinct stages then it stands to reason that the hop profile in the beer will also be divided into distinct stages with little or no connection between them. This may well explain why some people perceive so many beers to be excessively bitter while others bemoan the lack of hop flavour or aroma. There is no continuity through the profile.

I'm just speculating at the reasons and stirring the pot a bit, but I do feel that there is a general lack of sophistication in the microbrew scene. There are a lot of good beers, but few great ones.

 

[Stuster]

Why not stir the pot? You're a brewer after all. :super:

Interesting thoughts here. I guess for me, it's a question of practicality. I'd like to use all natural ingredients, as fresh as possible, unprocessed. But there are always compromises. Pellets are easy to come by, easier to store in the freezer section of the family fridge, and in more varieties. It may be that there is a difference as I say, but I've yet to notice a huge difference.

It's the same as cooking. Sure, I use fresh herbs, and I feel they are better, but I also use dried herbs. I also use different pastes such as sambal instead of fresh chili. But, I'm still combining the flavours myself, not just buy a TV dinner.

I also don't feel that 'timed' hop additions are the best way to achieve a smooth, balanced bitterness.

This intrigued me. So, how do you do your hop additions? :unsure:

 

[Wortgames]

I like the cooking analogy, probably an excellent way to look at it. Beer is far too important for dried herbs IMO

This intrigued me. So, how do you do your hop additions? :unsure:

I'm a big fan of FWH. I really like the gentle flavour and aroma it gives (although I doubt it will impress the real hop fiends), and the bitterness seems much more rounded and integrated, much less harsh. If I'm doing 'additions' I'll usually divide them up into 6 or more additions so there's some continuity through the brew, or add random handfulls - anything other than the standard 'bitter-flavour-aroma' schedule.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not professing to be an expert myself - but I'm also not brewing beer for a living.

 

[Daemonix]

was a really good day, had alot of fun, personal favourite was "Robust Porter", can remember who made it but it was quite the swanky

 

[andreic]

Hi,

I went on Friday night with the Mrs and had great fun trying lots of different beers. It was packed. I must admit that it got a bit difficult to try and form any real judgement on the beers after a while. My wife thought most of the beers were too bitter so maybe she agrees with the assertion that they are overly-hopped. My favourite was probably the temple saison. I tried a lot of pale ales and wheat beers (2 styles I am trying to brew), but was not overly impressed with most of them. There was one wheat beer I tried that I thought was horrible - I thought it might have been infected I disliked it so much - it was the only taster I tipped out.

Not too many outstanding beers and a few poor ones, but a fun night.

cheers,

Andrei

 

[royourboat]

Any chance anyone took photos?

Was there any technologies or gadgets or was it showcasing the beers only?

 

[Malnourished]

Very interesting stuff... not sure I agree at all, but interesting nonetheless.

I actually stopped writing 'too hoppy' next to the beer names because I was doing it to just about all of them. A Bock, for example, should be a malty beer with just enough hop bitterness to balance that. It shouldn't be yet another vehicle for big hop bitterness. The same goes for brown ale, and while pale ales can legitimately run the gamut from almost no discernible hop character to IPA, it seems that here in Australia pale ales are all bunched up near the hoppy end and will inevitably feel the need to try and 'prove something' with their hops. A porter also shouldn't require excessive hop bitterness, as it has the roasted malt/barley to help balance any sweetness and it is relatively well attenuated anyway. Why then the need for the waxy back-of-the-throat taint from excess hop content?

Sorry to harp on this but I'm hoping you could provide some examples to back this all up. The bock I know what you're talking about, but that beer has bigger problems than just excessive bitterness. But which brown ale? Jamieson? I'd call that a nicely balanced, malt-forward brown ale, myself. Which porters? And conversely, are you able to provide examples (preferably available locally) of beers in these styles you don't consider too bitter? And most beers labelled "pale ale" are obviously American-style pale ales, they're intended to be hoppy. But on the English-style side there was Temple Special Bitter (crystal malt soup for mine,) Red Duck Pale Ale (already covered) and What's Brewing Pale (see below.)

I honestly think the strength of Victorian micros is their ability to make well balanced session-style beers, which are essentially British styles done in a slightly different way (dispensing method being an obvious one.) Beers like Mountain Goat Hightail, Holgate Old Pale, Red Hill Golden, Jamieson Brown, Bright Hellfire, 3 Ravens Black and Bridge Road Robust Porter really are the quintessential Victorian microbrews, in my opinion. I don't see them as pushing boundaries in any particular direction, they're just good, honest beers. I also think comparing Australian beers to British beers is something of a mistake. Most of them are inspired by British beers, but they're never going to taste exactly like what you can get in Blighty. Personally I really like that, the idea of terroir in beer really appeals to me. Do you feel the same way about, say, Baltic porters or Belgian pale ales?

And as Stuster's already covered, you might be surprised at just how many breweries use hop pellets, or worse. As another example Westvleteren doesn't just use pellets, they also use hop extract!

the beer suffering from DMS was the whats brewing PA.

DMS or diacetyl? I thought their pale and amber both reeked of diacetyl - not my thing at all but evidently some others really dig it. I thought their porter was pretty good though, didn't taste like coins to me...

 

[sam]

DMS or diacetyl? I thought their pale and amber both reeked of diacetyl - not my thing at all but evidently some others really dig it. I thought their porter was pretty good though, didn't taste like coins to me...

I remember at What's Brewing's first Fed Square showcase (mid 2006), one of their beers (pale or amber) had so much diacetyl that people were requesting the "butterscotch beer" (and loving it ). I was hoping it (diacetyl) was because they had just started brewing, but if it's still showing up...

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the micro-scene in the Pacific Northwest. Not to much diacetyl here, though, probably to many hops for some.

sam

 

[warrenlw63]

And as Stuster's already covered, you might be surprised at just how many breweries use hop pellets, or worse. As another example Westvleteren doesn't just use pellets, they also use hop extract!
DMS or diacetyl? I thought their pale and amber both reeked of diacetyl - not my thing at all but evidently some others really dig it. I thought their porter was pretty good though, didn't taste like coins to me...

Mal

If you haven't already read Brew Like a Monk. It will open your eyes to to some of this stuff. Believe it or not Chimay has been using "hop extract" yep, extract since 1967 believe it or not.

Scary stuff OTOH sometimes what we don't know doesn't hurt us.

BTW guys just to weigh in the on the pellet debate. I must confess I prefer hop plugs or what flowers are available as late additions. That being said I'd rather have fresh pellets than questionable flowers or plugs too. The whole thing condenses down the the condition and freshness of the product at the time.

Warren -

 

[DarkFaerytale]

DMS or diacetyl? I thought their pale and amber both reeked of diacetyl - not my thing at all but evidently some others really dig it. I thought their porter was pretty good though, didn't taste like coins to me...

it had a deffinate creamed corn taste to it, no doubt about it. but was told its only in one batch.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

well the time has come again my friends, 2 more weeks till the showcase. Perhaps it's just me but i count the days befor this thing (i obviously don't get out much and cheap beer is the only way to get my mates to go anywhere near the city ) so who on here is going? anyone want to meet up and compare notes? i'll most likely be there on the thursday. with a day off on friday i shall be enjoying myself immensely (and most likely be at Y&J afterwards or some other place i normally wouldn't go to)

full details are here

http://www.federationsquare.com.au/index.cfm?pageID=207

cheers

-Phill

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I want in. I just have to save half my lunch money each day between now and then and...

 

[chris.peile]

Hey there - I know that apd and I are planning on making an appearance. We haven't decided what day yet, and are hoping to bring along a couple of other budding brewers to help them get inspired... Should be good looking at the posts about previous events.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

make your own lunch spills that way you'll save almost twice as much and might be able to afford KFC for afterwards!

-Phill

 

[Fents]

Im in :beerbang:

 

[lucas]

do they have the dates right? isnt that a wednesday and a thursday?