Mashing - Water or Grain in first?

[r055c0]

Was watching a couple of clips on youtube over the weekend, quite a few of them (all american) showed the brewers filling thier mash tuns with water and then adding the grain to the water.

I've always done it the other way around, assuming this will bring the temperature of the mash down to your target without overheating the grain.

Just wondering what others do and why. Does it make a difference?

 

[fcmcg]

ive always done water then grain.. and stir like a *******....i also have a herms...

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I've done both, but generally will go water first, grain 2nd. I hit my mash temp spot on yesterday, so no issue for me.

Especially if I add grain gradually - i.e. add a quarter, stir in, get rid of doughballs, then repeat 4 times. Tends to be a quicker mash in for me.

Esky is my mash tun.

 

[mckenry]

Water first. So much easier for me. Adding water to the grain creates dough balls. Obviously the water/grain ratio is nothing/heaps at first so ALL the water is absorbed early on making it harder to mix. With all your water ready a lot of grain can be added at once without a problem.

 

[TimT]

Water first.

A problem adding grain first would surely be - wouldn't you run the risk of burning the grain on the bottom?

 

[mxd]

water then grain, I'm HERMS and heat the strike water up in the MLT

 

[TidalPete]

Grain first because I underlet after heating up the liquor in the HLT overnight via a timer.
I don't get dough balls. 4-vessel HERMS here.

 

[manticle]

Doesn't matter. I've done both. Most often I add some water, some grain, some water, etc.

 

[TimT]

I've always done it the other way around, assuming this will bring the temperature of the mash down to your target without overheating the grain.

Somewhere I think on the Grain and Grape website they advise to heat the water to 77 degrees celsius - then when you add the grain the temp will drop to 68 degrees. Seems to work, so I generally follow that principle ....!

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

At the last swap meet I was introduced to the under letting method and have not looked back.

So much easier than water then grain that I had been doing every AG brew. Also no dough balls and no stirring required.

 

[idzy]

At the last swap meet I was introduced to the under letting method and have not looked back.

So much easier than water then grain that I had been doing every AG brew. Also no dough balls and no stirring required.

Was at the same swap and have to agree. We mashed in a lot of grain that day.

For me personally, followed the advice from the guy I bought the system off (Gava) and have always underlet (grain first).

 

[mckenry]

At the last swap meet I was introduced to the under letting method and have not looked back.

So much easier than water then grain that I had been doing every AG brew. Also no dough balls and no stirring required.

Its a good way IF your system allows it. I have a 3V herms. I heat the strike water, using the HERMS from the HLT. The HLT water then becomes the sparge water. If I was to use the HLT water to strike with, I'd have to work out losses through the pipes, then heat another batch of sparge water. Possible, but too much effort as I have both the HLT and MLT at the right temp when I wake up, using a timer.
I do underlet for sparging though. Thats a winner for keeping a good grainbed.

All depends on your setup.

 

[Goose]

1 inch of water above the false bottom first

then grain

then water to 1 inch above the surface of the grain bed. stir, then allow to settle before recirc on RIMS.

no need to measure water, just grain bill.....

 

[QldKev]

Grain first because I underlet after heating up the liquor in the HLT overnight via a timer.
I don't get dough balls. 4-vessel HERMS here.

Same here, underletting is the only way.

 

[Goose]

Same here, underletting is the only way.

forgot to add, yes I also underlet after adding grain till I reach equilibrium with HLT level. I depending on grain bill I have to pump in balance to 1" above grain bed, cant use gravity for full water charge usually because HLT and mash tun are at the same level. Slight improvement to design would be to raise the HLT a bit. :huh:

 

[dicko]

Underlet here or at least I always used to underlet in my 3v system.

I now have a BM and the operational method is to have the water in the equipment and then pour the grain into the malt pipe.
It is a pain in the arse to have to stir dough balls from the mash.

Mmmmm, I wonder if I could put the grain in the malt pipe and fit it into the BM and then poor the water into the machine down the side,
Probably too much trouble to get the volumes correct.....thinking, thinking.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I'd never heard the term "underlet" before this thread. Is this something usually done on 3-4v systems? Please tell me more.............

I BIAB in a 40l Crownie and add grain to water..

 

[hsb]

I was always taught to add grain to water, but no rules.
Plus is it preheats your mash tun and less dough balls.

Underletting is just filling with water from your down belows.

 

[dicko]

I'd never heard the term "underlet" before this thread. Is this something usually done on 3-4v systems? Please tell me more.............

I BIAB in a 40l Crownie and add grain to water..

Underletting works well with a conventional mash tun and HLT.
With the new things like Herms and Rims it means the water and mash tun can all be heated together by heating the water directly by the herms etc in the tun. This takes away the need for adjusting strike water temp prior to adding to the mash tun.
Strike temp adjustment is a skill that is slowly slipping out of use with herms rims BMs etc.

I would imagine with biab that you will still need to calculate strike temp unless your mash tun / kettle is heated in which case you could add the water to the grain and then heat to achieve mash temps required.
The underlet method was for a conventional mash tun, originally.

 

[Goose]

Underlet here or at least I always used to underlet in my 3v system.

I now have a BM and the operational method is to have the water in the equipment and then pour the grain into the malt pipe.
It is a pain in the arse to have to stir dough balls from the mash.

Mmmmm, I wonder if I could put the grain in the malt pipe and fit it into the BM and then poor the water into the machine down the side,
Probably too much trouble to get the volumes correct.....thinking, thinking.

yes you will get doughballs if your strikewater is too high a temperature. The thermal mass of my system requires me to heat water to 14 deg above mash target if I go straight for mash target. water then has to be heated to 79 deg C for most of my brews and I do get doughballs which are easily broken up using a mega mash paddle. But agree its a pain. To avoid doughballs I sometimes mash in lower by 10-15 degrees then raise the mash temp to target, but it takes longer.