Mash Out Blow Out

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Mercs Own

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Trying to work out my recirc temp to hold mash temp and blew it out somewhat. HLT temp was at 95 and within 6 minute of recirc the mash temp went to about 78!! I guess that is a maash out. I have had to stop everything and wait for my HLT to cool down so I can recirc some more to set the bed and then sparge.

Might try hlt temp of 85 next time! Hopefully I havent given those nasty tannins a wake up call?
 

delboy

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i have read that the HLT temp should be set up at around 78 before adding the grain as the grain when added drops temp down to about 65 .
but then again it depends a lot on your equimpment .
you could try a recovery and taste test befor boil .
after sparging?

this sounds like a question for a promasher.
as i am learning a few things my self .
do you have anypictures of your set up mercs own I would like to see it as i have herd a bit about the set up on the site .
may be even a pose shot of you doing the business end of things.
what do you recon ?

delboy
 

pint of lager

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Merc, how long had the grain sat at mash temps for? Had you actually reached the mash out stage? Or were you recirculating during the mash?

If the mash had finished, you were at mashout, recirculating and the grain bed reached 78 deg C, you are probably ok. Most people aim for a grain bed temp of 72-75 at mashout. No gaurantees though. I keep my grain bed below 72 deg when sparging, and don't do a mashout.

The dreaded extraction of tannins occurs at higher pHs, near the end of the runoff sparge as the sg lowers towards 1.000.

An interesting experiment, as you sparge, keep running a small amount into a coffee cup (with a large thermal mass the sample temp drops) and taste the changes throughout the sparge. Even after you stop collecting, keep running off and tasting the wort.

If your grist had not reached mashout time, then I am very worried that you have destroyed the enzymes before all the starch had been converted to sachaarides.

Delboy, you are mixing up the terms and processes during a mash, once you have actually done some of your own, you will have a better idea of the process and be more able to give advice.
 

warrenlw63

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pint of lager said:
Delboy, you are mixing up the terms and processes during a mash, once you have actually done some of your own, you will have a better idea of the process and be more able to give advice.
[post="86346"][/post]​
Can't speak for Delboy, however I'm sure as a new member he was probably only trying to help. Being hobbyists I'm sure we're all guilty of giving hunches every now and then. :D

Warren -
 

delboy

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pint of larger no offence taken as if you dont get involved in conversation you dont learn not giving any advice though just what i have lernt thus far taste taste taste well i got part of it correct taste still learning though thanks for the critisisum well received .i guess one dse get confused with all the post on here looking forward to doing my first ag but want to learnmore still .

delboy
 

Mercs Own

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Pint of Lager, thankfully I had finished my mash - held for an hour at 68. It was a good experiment to see what HLT temp I need to raise the mash temp for both mash out and sparge.

Your comments were very helpful as I have been confused with the whole sparge temps.... I thought to sparge at 75 - 76 meant the temp hitting the mash bed should be that high which is what I have been trying to do. But if you sparge keeping your grain bed below 72 then I neednt worry about reaching those other temps?

I sparged today with the water on the grain bed at 70.2, the mash tun temp gauge read - 74 and probably dropped down to about 68 - 70 by the end of the sparge.

Delboy read read read and then brew - thats what I did. oh and taste alot also :chug:
 

delboy

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yes thanks paul i am just a partial brewer at the moment but i am reading that much i am getting abit confused with some of it but i like to get involve with conversation and if i am wronge well thats good to because i will get put on the right track buy you guys who know more than me hence the lesson starts



delboy :beer:
 

pint of lager

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Merc, as you keep reading, there are many different opinions as to what temperature the grainbed/sparge/mashout should all be at. 72 is what I try and keep my grainbed below. Some literature says higher, but as the temp increases, so does the risk of tannin extractions. Your HLT temp at sparge will differ due to whatever (if any) losses your system has.

There was an excellent thread in the last week or so, about whether brewers mashed out or not. A follow on thread would be, what temperature and conditions do you aim for when sparging.

Good to read that your mash was completed before the temp went high. I suspect, because the og was still high that any tannin extraction will be minimal.

Delboy, as Merc said, keep reading and mashing. Won't be long and you will have all the terminology down pat. Once you have done a few mashes, you will be more able to offer advice and also partake in the conversation on a more solid footing. If you know of anyone in your area that mashes, see if you can sit in and watch a brewday. Keep doing your partials, won't be long and you will be telling everyone about your first ag.
 

warrenlw63

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Merc.

A simple rule of thumb guess to what temp you must keep your HLT for HERMS recirc. would be to employ similar rules to mashing in temperatures. May not be 100% accurate but I'm guessing a good ballpark figure.

Just a wild guess I'd have your HLT 8-10 degrees higher than your mash temp. ie; mash 65. HLT temps say 73-75. At least it's a workable start that you can adjust from there without potentially denaturing your enzymes. Bear in mind that differing ambient temps will impact on this as well. Hotter days will require shorter temp differentials and cooler days larger ones etc. Take notes and hang onto 'em would be a good way to go. ;)

Now I know why the thought of a HERMS scares me. :lol:

Warren -
 

vlbaby

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Mercs,
I did a lot of experimentaton with my herms system just using plain water. I found that for my particular system, the HLT would need to be about 1 degC higher than the target mash temp in order to keep it steady. You'll probably find that in the case of your system, the figure will be different.

I also messed around with stepping up the temp for mashout abiding by the previous method. Problems i noted there was that the temperature would increase very slowly. If I set the HLT to a much higher temp, the mash temp would rise much more quickly, but i would risk overshooting my target temperature. After that i decided that a mashout really didnt give me much benefit and so a scrapped it.
My own personal belief now, is that the higher the temperature, the higher the tannin extraction. I believe that the figure of 72 deg or 76deg etc is merely a compromise value between efficiency and tannin extraction. So as such I dont do mashouts.
Mind you, thats only my belief, and theres probably no real evidence to support me. In fact you better put that down as just a hunch :p

vlbaby.
 

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