March Pump Problems

[Andyd]

G'day all,

I was brewing the other day and tried pumping hot water from my kettle up to the HLT, which is probably about 2 metres above the pump. I had real difficulty getting the pump to push to the 1.5M mark, and couldn't get it any higher.

Is there somethign wrong with my pump, or is this just a limitation of the pump?

Thanks!

Andy

 

[devo]

That is probably a tad high but I'm just wondering before you initiate the pump do you allow it to prime first? i.e. Open the valves/taps and allow any air bubbles that may be in the line to rise to the top and purge out of the system.

 

[Brooksy]

I gather you have a centrifugal pump, which are directly affect by head etc.

What series pump is it?

Have you checked the performance curves for you particular pump?


Maybe these guys can help:
http://www.marchpump.com/

 

[domonsura]

lol, the title leaves this thread WIDE open for pun...how much head would a march pump give if a march pump could give head.........????

But anyway back on topic...

The March 809 PL HS pump is specced to give 2.7m head, so I would suggest that this would probably be a priming issue as Devo says. If the water is REALLY hot, you may be having cavitation issues but I think it's more likely priming issues.
Is your pump mounted with the inlet at bottom and outlet at top to allow an air pockets to come out? If you don't allow these pumps to prime correctly, you won't even get it to pump up 1 metre let alone 2m. You may need to disconnect the hose from your HLT and lay it flat to allow the pump to prime through, then re-attach without allowing it to drain (I use a ball valve on the pump outlet to assist in doing this, ie - disconnect, lay flat, allow to prime, close ball valve, turn on pump and then open ball valve..... but you could also use a ball valve on your HLT inlet to do the same thing, you'll need something to stop your HLT draining back down through the pump anyway. You SHOULD be fine once you've done this.
If you do all of this and still no joy, I would suggest you have a leak somewhere or maybe a fault with the pump.
You could also try just priming the pump with hose pressure.

 

[SJW]

Yep, I did two brews over easter with my new brewery and March pump. I did notice that it was very had to prime when recirculating the mash as there was not enough head or pressure to push the air bubbles trough the line. Next time though I will disconect at the outlet and use the valves to prime as domonsura said.
But how good is brewing now with a March pump! I love it.

Steve

 

[Trent]

Yes, the march pump tends to be a bit of a pig to prime until you are used to it, and even when ya think ya have it all worked out, sometimes it will give you a hiccup like this to show ya who's boss! I would bank on it being a priming problem.
While we are on the topic...
I have tried the Jamil Zainashef "whirlpool chiller" with my march pump, and find it doesnt seem to have enough force (even when properly primed) to create the whirlpool that he claims to get with the March 809HS. I clamped the ends of the piping of the whirlpool device almost closed, bar a tiny little corner, and this is better, but still has trouble moving the wort around in a decent whirlpool. The Seppoe's all seem to say that the 809 HS will pump at 7 gallons per minute full throttle, which is around 27L a minute. I tell ya what, thats alot bloody faster than my pump seems capable of. Do I actually have a priming problem that I never knew existed, or a dodgy pump, or does it not really pump that much? I havent measured EXACTLY, but it pumps at around 4-5L per min flat out. Does that sound about right, or are others getting 20+L per minute and I need to take mine back? Been meaning to post on this for a long time!
And yeah, Steve, brewing with a pump is great - best thing I ever did for my brewing.
All the best
Trent

 

[domonsura]

What sorts of fittings are you using with your pump Trent?
If you are using any kind of reduced bore fittings, (ball valve, hosetails etc) that can affect the flow.
I've also tried whirlpooling with the pump, and have found that the performance is a little disappointing, but then I have a couple of reduced bore fittings there so I'm not going to see the full force of flow it's capable of.
The other important thing I've noticed with whirlpooling is that it makes a drastic difference what direction your inlet into the kettle is facing. Angled slightly in towards the centre of the vessel will whirlpool better than parallel to the side of the vessel because you are directing the flow into the slower moving part of the whirlpool (otherwise the velocity of the whirlpool at the outer edge will very quickly match the velocity of the kettle inlet flow), I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that around 30 degrees away from the vessel wall is optimum. I angle mine up and towards the centre for best distribution etc. Maybe you could try that to make the most of the flow rate you do have..

 

[goatherder]

Yes, the march pump tends to be a bit of a pig to prime until you are used to it, and even when ya think ya have it all worked out, sometimes it will give you a hiccup like this to show ya who's boss! I would bank on it being a priming problem.
While we are on the topic...
I have tried the Jamil Zainashef "whirlpool chiller" with my march pump, and find it doesnt seem to have enough force (even when properly primed) to create the whirlpool that he claims to get with the March 809HS. I clamped the ends of the piping of the whirlpool device almost closed, bar a tiny little corner, and this is better, but still has trouble moving the wort around in a decent whirlpool. The Seppoe's all seem to say that the 809 HS will pump at 7 gallons per minute full throttle, which is around 27L a minute. I tell ya what, thats alot bloody faster than my pump seems capable of. Do I actually have a priming problem that I never knew existed, or a dodgy pump, or does it not really pump that much? I havent measured EXACTLY, but it pumps at around 4-5L per min flat out. Does that sound about right, or are others getting 20+L per minute and I need to take mine back? Been meaning to post on this for a long time!
And yeah, Steve, brewing with a pump is great - best thing I ever did for my brewing.
All the best
Trent

My experiences are pretty similar to yours Trent. I fashioned a "whirlpool thing" which is a copper tube with a 90 degree angle on the end. I plug my pump hose into the end of it and the "whirlpool thing" goes into the wort next to the chiller. It does get a whirlpool up and going but I reckon it's pretty tame compared with what the seppos say. Either way, I think you just need to keep the wort moving to break up the insulating effect around the chiller. Using the pump takes 20 minutes off my chill time, but it still takes 20-30 minutes using 25 deg water. 4-5 litres per minutes sounds about right for me too, pumping from one vessel to another at the same level. I haven't timed it though. I am using 1/2" full bore camlock fittings with 1/2" hose. I'm not complaining though - a pump is the best thing I've done too.

 

[Trent]

Domonsura
I am just using half inch fittings that screw onto the outlets, and I am using a ball valve. I will try using my whirlpool set up with it pointed in to the centre a little more as you suggest, but its good to hear that others havent found the whirlpool to be really impressive. I actually tried using it in conjunction with my plate chiller, but once the water goes on, the wort flow slows right down - must be something to do with the thermodynamics of it all (something I know NOTHING about!). I was mainly trying it out to leave the cold break behind, and will give it one more try, but if it doesnt work out, a little cold break never hurt anyone!
All the best
Trent

 

[rwmingis]

I know this reply is about a year late, but I've got some input on these I found out the other day. I think the key is to have as little restriction on the inlet side as possible, these types of pumps need to have flooded inlet. When I first started tinkering with mine I was getting a trickle and was a bit unimpressed. (Wasn't terribly pleased either that they sent me a 115V model instead of the 240V model from the US on the first go. Lucky i spotted it before i fired it up.)

Then i dunked the entire pump head under water save for the outlet (don't shock yourself!) and a laser beam of water shot across the kitchen much to my wife's dismay. Her hands were on the hips...

These pumps can force the fluid through the fittings on the outlet side no probs, but they suck at sucking.

Moral of the story, inlet side of pump should be as close to the fluid source as possible and oversize fittings on the inlet.

Cheers,

Rob

 

[Damian44]

Hey peoples. I'm just wiring up my march pump i got shipped from the U.S. Would i be correct in assuming.....

Green/Yellow = Earth
Black = N
White = A

TYVM DamianAbove is wrong

 

[mxd]

let's assume you're a licensed sparky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring

 

[Damian44]

Thanks mxd. So i had it the wrong way around.

Green/Yellow = Earth
Black = A
White = N

 

[kenlock]

let's assume you're a licensed sparky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring

Just what you want, a licensed sparky who needs to google wiring. Has insulation fiasco written all over it. <_<