Making Your Extract More Fermentable

[Insight]

Just thought I'd share some wisdom from the Jamil show - Belgian Golden Strong episode. A top tip for making your extract more fermentable is to steep it with some base malt at saccrification temps for say 1 hour. The enzymes on the malt will continue to work on the longer chain sugars in the extract. Will help you dry out a high gravity beer without adding great gobs of simple sugars.

Anyone done the experiment?

 

[Screwtop]

Shhh, thats why partial mashing is the next step after kit/extract, don't let on to everyone.

 

[Insight]

Shhh, thats why partial mashing is the next step after kit/extract, don't let on to everyone.

I had thought partial mashing was a way to get sugars from malts & adjuncts that do not have enzymes, while still getting most of your fermentables from LME or DME. You seem to suggest the main reason for partial mashing is to increase the fermentability of the LME or DME? I think you may have misread the original post Screwy

 

[goomboogo]

I consider a partial mash to be as the name suggests; conducting a small mash of base malt (sure, this is a good time to add any specialty malts) that provides a portion of your fermentables for the resultant wort. The remaining fermentables are provided by liquid or dry malt extract or fermentable adjuncts.

I've seen confusion arise when people refer to steeping specialty grains as performing a partial mash. I can see where Screwtop is coming from in that partial mashing is definitely a mid-point between all extract and all grain. It's a great wasy for people to try their hand at mashing with a minimum of equipment and gives some grounding in the process of making beer from grain as opposed to extract.

 

[MHB]

I havent listened to this show but-
Is the reference to Extract as is in, make Liquid or Dry Malt Extract (LME, DME) more fermentable.

Or to making sweet water more fermentable?

Using the enzymes in malt to modify the fermentability of wort after lautering, or even fermenting beer isnt new, in Germany with their rules powdered malt can be added to a fermenting brew to produce dry beer exogenous enzymes can't.

It's less messy to just use Amlo or Promalt in the mash; Amlo has the advantage of helping make lautering easier to.

MHB

 

[Insight]

I havent listened to this show but-
Is the reference to Extract as is in, make Liquid or Dry Malt Extract (LME, DME) more fermentable.

Hi Mark - yes, exactly. The maltster has decided what temperature to mash at to make the Malt Extract, and generally homebrewers accept that it is set. The tip is that you cannot make the extract less fermentable, but you can make it more fermentable by allowing enzymes to work on it. Particularly useful if you are a Partial brewer who wants to make a really dry beer like a Saison or Tripel.

I am sure it is not a new process at all, but as I'd never heard of it before I thought I'd share.

 

[kook]

I listened to this on the train the other day too. But still struggle a little with the concept. Isn't all the conversion completed? What are the enzymes in the grain going to do? There isn't any starch left to convert. Can they break down some of the sugars into simpler sugars which are easier to ferment?

I've always thought that if you mashed at 70, then went back after the boil and added more grain at 62, you wouldn't make it any more fermentable?

It sounded really simple the way Jamil explained it, but he didn't really explain how or why it would work.

 

[MHB]

Whew back to mashing 101.
Now this is just off the top of my head without checking any numbers - so basic principals only OK.

There are something like a dozen enzymes in malt that do/may play a role in brewing there are probably hundreds more that we as brewers dont care about.

The two we talk about the most are Alpha and Bets Amylase. They have a range of conditions in which they are happy but let's say I create conditions biased for Alpha Amylase.
Say 73C and less acidic say around pH of 6
About an hour later I would have a mash that tests Starch Free (lets come back to this)
I would also have a mash that was rich in Dextrins because Alpha Amylase attacks the middle of a starch chain.
But there are rules; it can only break a chain about 7 or more sugars in from the end, so you get lots of 7-12 long rows or chains of glucose these are non fermentable and the resulting brew would be thick as glue and have next to no alcohol.

Conversely if I created the optimum conditions for Beta Amylase activity
Say 62-3 C and more acid say pH 5 and a bit
It would probably take all day to test starch free; because Beta can only bite 2 glucose molecules off the end of a chain, and there arent many ends for the enzymes to nibble on.
The resulting brew would be super dry and highly alcoholic.

At around 65C and a pH of 5.2-5.5
There is a balance, the Alpha is splitting long chains into smaller parts and providing lots of ends for the Beta to chew on. So we get a fairly fast conversion and a beer that has a balance of alcohol and body.

These processes go on after the mash tests Iodine normal!
There were some questions being asked recently about the possibility of shorter mash times.
Just because the starch has been reduced to dextrins doesn't mean that there is the right ratio of fermentable and un-fermentable components in the wort.
You have to leave the enzymes active until the desired ratio is achieved; this takes time

Now why would we want to change what the brewer created when the malt extract profile was designed?
Because Malt is expensive, even more expensive when you process it in a brewhouse then concentrate the wort to make Malt Extract.

In an attempt to get as much beer made with every Kg of malt as possible; as quickly as possible the brewer will be biasing the product toward dextrin production (higher Alpha activity then we would use as mash brewers) - in anticipation of you adding fermentables to restore the balance
If you want to use extract and change the ratio of fermentable components you need to add enzymes. Specifically enzyme that will tackle 12 glucose chains and shorter (primarily Beta Amylase)
To do this; if you milled up some malt, warmed the wort (extract and water) to 62-65 C, stirred the malt into the wort and left it for an hour or so the enzymes will get to work chopping up any dextrins they can.

There is another enzyme "Limit Dextrinase"
It can tackle lots of what would usually be residual dextrins; peak activity is 50-60 C (it breaks the 1.6 bonds as well as 1.4 bonds) Limit Dextrinase will break up dextrins that Beta Amylase wont touch.
Playing with this enzyme will make big changes to the fermentability of your wort.

It's going to be important to boil the wort for 2 reasons -
To sterilise the wort, there is lots of Lacto on the malt.
To kill all the enzymes, if you dont they can keep working; some even in the fermenter and you will have a super dry beer.

MHB

Sorry to ramble, but it's an interesting idea

 

[Insight]

Great summary Mark, many thanks! So addressing kook's point: What you are saying is that a 7-12 chain sugar is still a 7-12 chain sugar that can be broken down by beta-amylase even after the boil. The boil doesn't do anything magical to "set" these chains?

Forgot to mention that John the co-host on the show suggested you could also add Beano (an anti-flatulence dietary supplement containing enzymes). Jamil's opinion was that it was technically possible but might be difficult get the dosage right. I'm sure there is a reason why but it will take someone less chemistry-challenged than me to explain

 

[MHB]

7-12 glucose chains is the limit for what Alpha can make, there wont be many dextrins this big in a standard wort, because Beta will have had their way with the chains to.

But yes there are still dextrins in the malt extract that were the right enzymes present they would be further degraded; what would be really interesting is enzymes that tackle dextrins that neither Alpha nor Beta can attack (Terminal Dextrins).

Thats why I mentioned Limit Dextrinase, it is usually pretty much denatured at 60 C; by the time we get to mashing temperatures its dead.
Bit of a merry-go-round we need to be hotter than the temperature that denatures the enzyme to make the terminal dextrins that the enzyme acts on. So Limit Dextrinase is usually unimportant in a mash.

With exogenous enzymes - well some do the same jobs as Alpha and Beta but there some that could given time and the right conditions reduce everything to glucose - it would be very hard to determine how much to use and for how long.
The very real possibility of making a wort that resembles a dextrose solution exists - I think if I was going to experiment with exogenous enzymes I would only treat some of the extract - then bring it to the boil to denature the enzymes before adding the remainder of the extract.

If you are going to have a play with this, I would be interested in the results.

MHB