Making Wine - Anyone Interested ?

[frederic]

I tried to set myself up for a while - bought a 2nd hand grape crusher and eventually a small fruit press. However I don't have a car so the idea of getting out to vineyards for picking leftovers was logistically problematic. Missed about 3 grape harvest seasons in a row, moved to a smaller place and sold off the press and crusher.

Likely to stick to beer and cider for the moment but I do have more than a passing interest.
Greg L possibly too?

Well it's real pity you've given up the winemaking. Even a greater pity you're located in Fairfield VIC as opposed to NSW as I dion't live too far from our Fairfield.

I'm really keen to foster some quenching interest from Sydneyits.

Winemaking is more process than bookwork application. So it really helps to be with someone that's done it plenty times before. Once you've seen, your on your way.

 

[manticle]

Not given up - I'm only young. Just put back on the shelf for a bit due to practicality.

I was considering trialling a wine kit - while that goes against most of my brewing and other practices it might be good just to do one to get the inspiration back again. I'd also happily team up with someone to pick, crush, press, bottle etc and split a batch of proper stuff. Not afraid of hard work or getting my hands dirty - just don't have the equipment or the space for those bits.

Anyone local who wants to split a batch of grapes and the costs (say hiring destemmer, crusher etc from GG, petrol costs) as well as the physical work but can offer the space for the work and the drive to the vineyard - shout out.

 

[MashPaddler]

So what type of fridges are these ?. Is there a specific brand or style of fridge that better suited.

Last year I made a small batch of Viognier which turned out very well. I managed with a spare fridge. I also have a cellar which keeps a constant temperature. Works OK but refrigeration would be better for larger volumes.

You obviously have a good set up for your whites.

Just large fisher and paekel standard fridges with STC 1000 temp controllers wired up to run hot and cold to keep the temp wherever I want it, along with a brew belt which I hang from a hook. Cool, spare fridge and cellar sounds a good proxy. The reading I have done for whites shows temp control is the biggest issue. Re your comment about books, there is a standard process, but then specifics for particular grapes, so I learnt loads from it. I guess it's just like brewing, I read voraciously for a few years but nowdays only hit the books when doing a brew I haven't run before. There is a winery in Canberra called Lark Hill which do their reds in open fermenters in a shed, so reds are all good but yes, the whites are a delicate creature for best results. I will do two small vintages next season to get some practice, a shiraz and a riesling.

 

[frederic]

So what are "STC 1000 temp controllers" and what is a "Brew Belt". Sorry for being a bit thick, but I'm curious about how they can be adapted in my processes.

So where are you planning on getting your Shiraz and Riesling from ?. And incidently are they open to small batches such as 200Kg of each variety.

I'm interested to know how the Canberra belt vigniorons approach Amateur winemakers about suppling fruit.

 

[MashPaddler]

use the search function on this site, loads of threads on both. STC 1000 temperature controllers allow you to run the fridge as your cooling unit and a heat source such as a homebrew heat belt or heatpad (to put near but not on or under the fermenter) to heat the fridge, giving you complete temp control over the environment in the fridge. Accurate temp control enables you to dial in the best temp for the yeast, cold crash to drop the yeast out of suspension etc. Keg king among others do commercial units if you are not partial to a project on the weekend with the STC. After speaking with a local winemaker here (and buying a couple of decent cases over a long tasting) he gave me a couple of contacts. Probably best to make your own approaches, but so long as you are prepared to pay a fair price for the fruit, and approach them with respect - remember these guys generally do 4 years of wine science and then training, you should be fine with most vineyards I would have thought. Go the smaller wineries in your area. Also there is an excess grape site where wineries sell their excess to need crops, loads on there at the right times of year - I'll google it and post the link.

 

[hoppy2B]

What variety of red grapes did you nake. And which yeasts did you use. Which yeast did you think gave the best result.

Did you blend the resultant wine.

The grapes were mostly Shiraz and Grenache with a small amount of a white wine grape named Foxtail. There was also a small percentage of red and white table grapes with very large berries in the mix. The white grapes are supposed to highlight the red colour but must be fermented together.
One yeast I tried for the first time was ICV-D21, which produces wine with a high level of volatile acid which can be used for blending to freshen up other wines, but I don't recommend it as its not very nice. Seems to be a good analogue for WY1010.
For good fruit flavour and colour with red wine I recommend using BDX, BM45, ICV-D80 or ICV-D254. If you want something with a lot of body use SN9. You could add a little SN9 fermented wine to wine fermented with one of the above if need be, particularly if you are planning on cellaring the wine for many years.

 

[frederic]

.
For good fruit flavour and colour with red wine I recommend using BDX, BM45, ICV-D80 or ICV-D254. If you want something with a lot of body use SN9. You could add a little SN9 fermented wine to wine fermented with one of the above if need be, particularly if you are planning on cellaring the wine for many years.

Which yeasts did you use for the Grenache and was it a recommended yeast for that Variety. Where did you source each yeast strain.

Were you able to do a side be side comparison with say the Grenache and Shiraz using 2 different yeasts for each variety and if so, what was your conclusion and notable differences.

 

[treefiddy]

Not given up - I'm only young. Just put back on the shelf for a bit due to practicality.

I was considering trialling a wine kit - while that goes against most of my brewing and other practices it might be good just to do one to get the inspiration back again. I'd also happily team up with someone to pick, crush, press, bottle etc and split a batch of proper stuff. Not afraid of hard work or getting my hands dirty - just don't have the equipment or the space for those bits.

Anyone local who wants to split a batch of grapes and the costs (say hiring destemmer, crusher etc from GG, petrol costs) as well as the physical work but can offer the space for the work and the drive to the vineyard - shout out.

I may take you up on that offer in a few years.

I'm in much the same boat apart from the previous ownership of equipment.

 

[Greg.L]

I make my own wine from my own fruit. You need to worry about the fruit more than yeast. The influence of yeast is pretty small.
This year was a great vintage in nsw but the harvest is finished now. I have 100l in glass demijohns going through mlf - Shiraz Cabernet. The quality is good. I stomp with my feet and press with my cider press after 5days on skins in an open fermenter. I have a cellar for temperature control.

 

[frederic]

I make my own wine from my own fruit. You need to worry about the fruit more than yeast. The influence of yeast is pretty small.
This year was a great vintage in nsw but the harvest is finished now. I have 100l in glass demijohns going through mlf - Shiraz Cabernet. The quality is good. I stomp with my feet and press with my cider press after 5days on skins in an open fermenter. I have a cellar for temperature control.

Well Greg, at last a tradionalist at heart. Nothing wrong with a little tinea in the juice - adds character and a little funky attribute. I'm going to give the feet ago next vintage.

But seriously, why do you say the fruit is paramount over the yeast. Presumably the quality of grapes is vital in the outcome ?.

Is your cellar under ground, although at Bathurst it gets pretty cool about now anyway. Incidently, are there growers at or around Bathurst that are willing to sell grapes in small batches to solo amatuer winemakers?. Really keen to know.

I'm impressed that you are a New South Welshman and neighbour.

On ya Mate.

 

[frederic]

STC 1000 temperature controllers allow you to run the fridge as your cooling unit and a heat source such as a homebrew heat belt or heatpad (to put near but not on or under the fermenter) to heat the fridge, giving you complete temp control over the environment in the fridge.

Thanks for the tip. I checked this out and looks like a goer for my intended setup. Is this a DIY project or should I get a sarkie to do it ?.
I'm battling with an old fridge at present. Not very big so I can only accomodate 2 x 20L carboys at present. Not ideal so I'm researching a better setup for 2014 vintage. I'd really like to cater for about 100L. Anyone got suggestions on considerations or options for refrigeration.

 

[frederic]

I make my own wine from my own fruit.
This year was a great vintage in nsw but the harvest is finished now. I have 100l in glass demijohns going through mlf - Shiraz Cabernet. The quality is good.

Well done on you 100L of Shiraz Cabernet. Keep us posted on how it's progressing.

Just wondering about your MLF progress. Is this natural or did you inoculate with MLF culture ?. I also have a small batch going through MLF at present. I'm a bit concerned about the SO2 level since I understand that when you add SO2 it will stop the MLF process from continuing. I hav'nt added any SO2 since my crush. Interested in your thoughts.

 

[Greg.L]

Most of the difference between wines is the fruit. The yeast you need to be an expert to tell.
I am away so don't know how it is going my cellar is underground. So2 will stop mlf but gets bound during fermentation. I use a cultured mlf.

 

[Deep End]

On a whole different topic but vaguely relevant. I bottled my apricot wine and blackberry wine yesterday. Both were my first attempts at wine.

I was fairly unimpressed with the apricot wine on the palate, and I dont imagine it will get much better with age. I pulverised the pulp too much and the wine is a little hazy, and it just didnt taste to flash.

However the blackberry wine, my second attempt, sourced from local blackberries grown on the side of hill next to a few vineyards in the area is 10 times the wine. On tasting the leftovers from the demi I was quite surprised to get something not unlike some cheap bottled reds I have drunk over the years. Hopefully it will get better with 12 months aging.

Both were very basic fruit wines that have never seen oak and are unlikely too. But I'm fairly happy with atleast one of my efforts. I think one of those mini barrels would be an interesting thing to have to age some of the products in. Anyway just chucked my 2 cents in on wine making.

 

[Greg.L]

It is too late now to source grapes. In bathurst mark renzaglia at renzaglia wines knows all the local vineyards so if you ring him Feb/March next year he may be able to help.

 

[punkin]

On a whole different topic but vaguely relevant. I bottled my apricot wine and blackberry wine yesterday. Both were my first attempts at wine.

I was fairly unimpressed with the apricot wine on the palate, and I dont imagine it will get much better with age. I pulverised the pulp too much and the wine is a little hazy, and it just didnt taste to flash.

However the blackberry wine, my second attempt, sourced from local blackberries grown on the side of hill next to a few vineyards in the area is 10 times the wine. On tasting the leftovers from the demi I was quite surprised to get something not unlike some cheap bottled reds I have drunk over the years. Hopefully it will get better with 12 months aging.

Both were very basic fruit wines that have never seen oak and are unlikely too. But I'm fairly happy with atleast one of my efforts. I think one of those mini barrels would be an interesting thing to have to age some of the products in. Anyway just chucked my 2 cents in on wine making.

Oak dominoes or sticks are a very good alternative to barrelling. Many wineries use them.

I stock them for the steam collectors.

 

[hoppy2B]

Which yeasts did you use for the Grenache and was it a recommended yeast for that Variety. Where did you source each yeast strain.

Were you able to do a side be side comparison with say the Grenache and Shiraz using 2 different yeasts for each variety and if so, what was your conclusion and notable differences.

Chucked all the grapes in together. Fermented 50 litres with SN9, 40 litres with ICV-D80 and 30 litres with ICV-D21. Of these I consider ICV-D80 wine to be superior at this point in time. Yeast strain makes a massive difference.
ICV-D80 Deep violet magenta red colour and excellent concentrated fruit flavours, with an emphasis on berries. Soft on the palate with very mild tannins. The tannins will probably show more as it dries a little over the coming months. Might be why its recommended for barrel ageing as tannins are the main effect of ageing in a barrel.
ICV-D21 and SN9 These wines are lesser in colour with a brownish tint and a flavour which is very much sherry like. ICV-D21 has a high noticeable level of both acid and tannins. SN9 has a much rounder flavour with low acid and tannins. Neither seem to have much in the way of fruit evident. The sherry character dominates.
I'll probably blend a bit of the D21 into the SN9 and put it away for 5 years. In my opinion it requires a good ageing.
I have 50 litres of a red from 2010 which was fermented with K1. I'll look into it at the end of winter and am thinking I'll probably need to add a little SN9 to it. K1 makes a dry wine and in my experience dry wine isn't overly suitable for long ageing.
My old man has always made dry wine. He recently told me he kept some for 10 years once and it was undrinkable. He also likes the D80.

 

[frederic]

Chucked all the grapes in together. Fermented 50 litres with SN9, 40 litres with ICV-D80 and 30 litres with ICV-D21. Of these I consider ICV-D80 wine to be superior at this point in time. Yeast strain makes a massive difference.
ICV-D80 Deep violet magenta red colour and excellent concentrated fruit flavours, with an emphasis on berries. Soft on the palate with very mild tannins. The tannins will probably show more as it dries a little over the coming months. Might be why its recommended for barrel ageing as tannins are the main effect of ageing in a barrel.
ICV-D21 and SN9 These wines are lesser in colour with a brownish tint and a flavour which is very much sherry like. ICV-D21 has a high noticeable level of both acid and tannins. SN9 has a much rounder flavour with low acid and tannins. Neither seem to have much in the way of fruit evident. The sherry character dominates.
I'll probably blend a bit of the D21 into the SN9 and put it away for 5 years. In my opinion it requires a good ageing.
I have 50 litres of a red from 2010 which was fermented with K1. I'll look into it at the end of winter and am thinking I'll probably need to add a little SN9 to it. K1 makes a dry wine and in my experience dry wine isn't overly suitable for long ageing.
My old man has always made dry wine. He recently told me he kept some for 10 years once and it was undrinkable. He also likes the D80.

Thanks for the insight on yeast performance. I wouldn't have thought that yeast strain could affect the ultimate colour of the wine to a point that there are obvious differences after fermentation. I'll certainly note ICV-D80 for next year.

Do you allowe fermentation to fully complete prior to pressing or do you press prior to completion and allow fermentation to complete after pressing. I believe this process can result in a fresh and fruitier wine.

How do you store your wine for maturation - barrels, glass or stainless steel containers.

 

[Airgead]

Brownish colour and sherry character is more likely oxidisation rather than anything to do with the yeast...

Cheers
Dave

 

[scon]

I'm definitely interested in winemaking. I don't have any winemaking gear yet, but I'm in the Canberra region and can supply a car (all-wheel drive) and I've got a big shed for brewing.

Would be up for a trip to a vineyard maybe next year when everything's in season if people want to organise a trip.