Making The Very Best Out Of Kit, Grain And Hops

[Florian]

Hi guys,

I started my first brew about 5 weeks ago after some good advice on here (threw out lid and air lock and replaced with glad wrap, also ordered one of those fish tank temp controllers of ebay, which I'm due to install soon). I used a coopers european lager, BE2, 500g LDME and a hallertau tea bag, fermented at around 12-14 degrees to 23l.
After a supposedly "minor" surgery I ended up 1 week couch ridden and another two weeks in hospital, which gave me plenty of time to read about every thread on AHB. I skipped my plan to rack to a willow cube for cc, seeing it had about 5 (unplanned) weeks in primary anyway.

Last night I couldn't wait any longer and made my way down the two flights of stairs into the garage, still on crutches. I managed to quickly sanitise, prime, bottle and cap 8 stubbies, while standing on one leg most of the time. Will do the rest later. Taste out of the fermenter is ok, am glad that all the sweetness from previous tastings had disappeared. OG about 1045, FG 1013.

Anyway, the point I'm coming to is my future brewing. The next one will be an extract, Neill's centeniarillo. Got all my ingredients a while ago. Unfortunately, after reading more in hospital, I would love to get straight to a 9l mini BIAB, but have already all these other ingredients.

Based on them I'm planning (after the centenniarillo) a czech pilsener (brewcraft kit) with 1kg LDME and various hop additions. I guess I don't need much for bittering (right?), but would want to up flavour and aroma, therefore giving the kit at least a 20 minute boil with hops. Haven't really heard of anyone boiling kits, but it does make sense to me, please correct me if I'm wrong. I have available 90g each of saaz, hallertau, centennial and amarillo. Any suggestions on a good combination with the kit?

I also got about 250g of carapils spec grain and a kilo of chrystal. Will be using 2x11,5g of S-23 at 11 degrees.

I would welcome any suggestions as to how to make the best out of that kit, seeing I am already a bit disappointed not to move straight to BIAB. I only bought the kit to quickly put it down before a long planned trip to Germany and to let it ferment while away. Unfortunately this trip has now been postponed indefinitely.

Thanks guys for your input.

Florian

 

[bum]

but would want to up flavour and aroma, therefore giving the kit at least a 20 minute boil with hops. Haven't really heard of anyone boiling kits, but it does make sense to me, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Can't help you with the recipe as it isn't the kind of beer I make or drink but boiling the kit will have the exact opposite effect to the one you desire. Boiling a kit will drive off the flavour and aroma compounds. Sometimes this might be a desirable effect but you'd want a good reason to be doing it. I don't think it is necessarily a good idea in this instance. It would be best to boil up the hops with some of your other fermentables instead (enough to make the boil 1040-1045).

Someone will be a long with more specific advice for the beer you want soon I am sure.

Good luck with your recovery.

 

[Florian]

Thanks, that makes totally sense now that you mention it, Bum. Was wondering why I hadn't heard of it before. Will just boil up the hops with the liquid I get out of the steeped grains and some additional LDME to get to the appropriate gravity.

Now I just need some suggestions as to which grains and hops to use...

 

[brettprevans]

Thanks, that makes totally sense now that you mention it, Bum. Was wondering why I hadn't heard of it before. Will just boil up the hops with the liquid I get out of the steeped grains and some additional LDME to get to the appropriate gravity.

yup, thats the way to do it.

edit:
with the piils, you'll prbably use saaz or hallertau if traditoonal, probably not the crystal.
nothing stoppiung you using nay of the other hops though and making thats not a 'to style' pils. with the kits your right about not needing too much bittering hops unless your adding heaps of other malts. if its just the tine 1kf of malt xtract , then probaly just looks at flavour/aromoa additions (ie 20min additions or less)

 

[Florian]

yup, thats the way to do it.

edit:
with the piils, you'll prbably use saaz or hallertau if traditoonal, probably not the crystal.
nothing stoppiung you using nay of the other hops though and making thats not a 'to style' pils. with the kits your right about not needing too much bittering hops unless your adding heaps of other malts. if its just the tine 1kf of malt xtract , then probaly just looks at flavour/aromoa additions (ie 20min additions or less)

Thanks, good advice, CM2. I think I am wanting to stay more traditional, so I guess I'll just steep the carapils. Any ideas on a hop shedule with saaz and hallertau? Or even experimenting with the other hops, to become just a little bit off style?Which quantities at what times, considering that the kit already comes pre hopped?

Under which circumstances would I add more malt or dex and thus needing more bittering? In other words, what advantage would the added fermentables give me to justify a longer boil with more bittering hops?

Any comments on the yeast used, Saflager S-23, two packets of it at 11 degrees?

As I said, I am fairly new to brewing and open to suggestions.

 

[Bribie G]

With a Pilsener you would have more luck using a very blonde kit and a can of very blonde liquid malt extract rather than the Light Dried Malt Extract - in my kits n bits days I used to start off with a Canadian Blonde (Coopers or Morgans). For the hops I would do a 20 min boil with a Noble hop such as Saaz, Tettnang or Hallertau - say 30g boiled with water and a bit of malt extract to help efficiency - and use a lager yeast.

If you have a fermenting fridge and can go as low as 12 degrees, then a yeast such as S-23 or W-34/70 is great, but If you can only manage mid teens then lager yeasts such as Morgans Lager or Swiss Lager Yeast S-189 will do a convincing lager at those temps. If the worst comes to the worst then US-05 ale yeast does a good pseudo-lager but no higher than 17 degrees. And carapils, steeped, is excellent. I use a third of a kilo in nearly all my full mash lagers.

Once you get the hang of kits n bits then the next stage could be partial brews doing a mini mash of a couple of kilos of base malt plus a kit or a can, then you are well on the way to the darkside B)

 

[Florian]

With a Pilsener you would have more luck using a very blonde kit and a can of very blonde liquid malt extract rather than the Light Dried Malt Extract - in my kits n bits days I used to start off with a Canadian Blonde (Coopers or Morgans). For the hops I would do a 20 min boil with a Noble hop such as Saaz, Tettnang or Hallertau - say 30g boiled with water and a bit of malt extract to help efficiency - and use a lager yeast.

If you have a fermenting fridge and can go as low as 12 degrees, then a yeast such as S-23 or W-34/70 is great, but If you can only manage mid teens then lager yeasts such as Morgans Lager or Swiss Lager Yeast S-189 will do a convincing lager at those temps. If the worst comes to the worst then US-05 ale yeast does a good pseudo-lager but no higher than 17 degrees. And carapils, steeped, is excellent. I use a third of a kilo in nearly all my full mash lagers.

Once you get the hang of kits n bits then the next stage could be partial brews doing a mini mash of a couple of kilos of base malt plus a kit or a can, View attachment 37051 then you are well on the way to the darkside B)

Hey Bribie, many thanks for your input! I will stick to the brewcraft szech pilsener, as that is what I have and want to get rid off. But I also have a few 1.5kg cans of very pale malt extract, which I could use instead of the dried malt.

I have two massive spare fridges, both of ebay (on for $31, the other for $5), and will install the temp control into one of them before the brew, so I can keep the temp at 11 or 12 degrees.
I got two packets of S-23, as that is what Mel from my LHBS rcommended for the low temp, and that"s what it says on the package as well.
So i will definately use the 250g of carapils. With the hops, do you think I should combine the hallertau and saaz, and put them in at different times, so let's say 15g of each at 20 minutes and another 10g of each at 5 minutes or so? Add some more at flame out? See, this is the part where I am not too confident yet, as to which amounts at what times.

Once I am done with this brew I will be moving to the dark side very quickly, but I need to get these over and done with first.

As always, thanks for your continued input.
Florian

 

[Florian]

Okay, I think I will put this one down this afternoon or early evening.
I have decided on (but am still open to suggestions):

Brewcraft Czech Pilsener Kit 1.5kg
Morgans extra pale liquid malt extract 1.5kg (unhopped)
250g Carapils steeped
30g Saaz @ 20 minutes
10g Saaz @ 5 minutes

filled up to 20 litres with spring water from coles and ferment with 2 packets of S-23 at 11 degrees.

I decided to stick to Saaz only and skip the Hallertau, unless someone gives my a reason why I shouldn't.
Also, as I am not very confident with different affects of hop additions yet, so I will boil 30g @ 20m as suggested by Bribie, and I thought it might not hurt to throw in another 10g @ 5m, but I might be completely wrong?

Anyway, my fermenter is cleaned and sanitised, and my 2nd fridge is up and running so I can transfer my other brew which is cold conditioning in my first fridge into it, and then set the first fridge to 11 degrees. I have only temp control for the fist fridge, so I will set the 2nd fridge to very cold, which should be perfect for cold conditioning.

suggestions, tips and corrections are always welcome!

Florian

 

[Nick JD]

suggestions, tips and corrections are always welcome!

Check out the strange info (Palmer's How to Brew) on Cold Conditioning and counterintuitively, how you can do it faster at higher temperatures.

EDIT: this: "Nominal lagering times are 3 - 4 weeks at 45F, 5 - 6 weeks at 40F, or 7 - 8 weeks at 35F."

 

[enoch1973]

Florian100,

Look for the kit / extract spread sheet on this site. I've found it extremely helpful in working out how bitter the beer will be, what to add and what to do when it comes time to brew. Although I've only just started (I've done 3 extract brews) I would never boil the kit beers themselves. I would only boil with unhopped liquid malt or dry malts. The spread sheet can help with this. The Brewday tab is very helpful.

Pete

 

[theredone]

Hi guys,

(threw out lid and air lock and replaced with glad wrap, also ordered one of those fish tank temp controllers of ebay, which I'm due to install soon)

i have erad around this forum that it can be better to use gladwrap. just not sure i fully follow. do you simply wrap the top in gladwrap? or do you put a rubber band around it or something? punch holes in top to let co2 out? just cant realy understand how it can allow gass to escape whithought letting air in. and how is this any better than an airlock? i understand you can even ferment withought anything on top due to the co2 layer produced.

anyways just thought an understanding of this "gladwrap" deal would help in times like..... yesterday.... when i cracked a lid

cheers

 

[RdeVjun]

Hi theredone,
once you see it, it really is simple as falling off a log.

This is actually a photo of top cropping 1469PC, but you see the layer of film over the fermenters and you see the string of pipe cleaners holding it in place? Well, that's all you need!
DON'T prick a hole in it, the gas finds a way out, the layer of film bulges up pretty handsomely, but no need to be concerned. Once fermentation tails off the film subsides, if there's a hole in it any condensation or drips will have an easy route into your beer- probably don't want any of that muck in your beer, hey?
Hope this helps! :icon_cheers:

 

[theredone]

cheers mate. so is this actually better than lid and airlock? it kinda looks worrying in regards to light dmg to your beer though

 

[RdeVjun]

cheers mate. so is this actually better than lid and airlock? it kinda looks worrying in regards to light dmg to your beer though

There is very little light in my fridges!

Better? (Oh, not this again...) You be the judge:
* No cleaning and sanitising of airlock, lid, seal and grommet.
* No backwash when moving the fermenter.
* No backwash when extracting a hydro sample.
* More clearance in the fridge (i.e. less height, about 100mm less), means four fermenters in one fridge as opposed to two with airlocks.
* Large inspection port into the fermenter.
* And so on, I probably overlooked a few points...

For me, all that equates to better!

 

[theredone]

fair enough. might give it a go.

an u say no sanitation. so you dont even spray the gladwrap with no rinse or anything?

 

[kelbygreen]

no as cling wrap is for food so should come already sanitised you could try to spray it dunno how easy that would be.

 

[Florian]

theredone, just give it a go. Just roll the glad wrap directly onto the fermentor, you won't have any nasties on there. To sum it up with a real crappy slogan:
"Once you go glad, you'll never go back!"

 

[Florian]

Check out the strange info (Palmer's How to Brew) on Cold Conditioning and counterintuitively, how you can do it faster at higher temperatures.

EDIT: this: "Nominal lagering times are 3 - 4 weeks at 45F, 5 - 6 weeks at 40F, or 7 - 8 weeks at 35F."

So When lagering at 7.2 C 3-4 weeks is enough, whereas when I lager at 1 C, I should lager for much longer? What about the quality of lagering though, would I have a better result with 8 weeks at 1 C? Not that I am keen on lagering for that long atm unless I get a third fridge.

 

[Nick JD]

So When lagering at 7.2 C 3-4 weeks is enough, whereas when I lager at 1 C, I should lager for much longer? What about the quality of lagering though, would I have a better result with 8 weeks at 1 C? Not that I am keen on lagering for that long atm unless I get a third fridge.

I use gelatin and polyclar to clear the beer up, so for me "lagering" takes 3 days in the fridge at fermenting temperatures.

I did a "proper" lager once ... last time I bother. If I had a cellar that was 4C I would for sure, but it's a lot of dicking around for a slightly better taste. Slightly.

Fridges should be fulled with fermenting beer!

 

[Florian]

Brewcraft Czech Pilsener Kit 1.5kg
Morgans extra pale liquid malt extract 1.5kg (unhopped)
250g Carapils steeped
30g Saaz @ 20 minutes
10g Saaz @ 5 minutes

filled up to 20 litres with spring water from coles and ferment with 2 packets of S-23 at 11 degrees.

With a little delay, will be putting this down tonight after getting some more supplies in. I will up the Carapils from 250g to 330g, and I will use one pack of Wyeast 2278 - Czech Pilsner instead of the two packs of S-23. Will pitch at around 20ish and set the fridge to 11 once fermentation becomes obvious.
Will also skip the @5 minutes addition and dry hop 15g during fermentation instead.

Should be a good one, can't wait!