Losses To Trub, Advice Needed.

[Acasta]

Hi guys,
Just complete a good brew day. However, when i was draining wort i had to leave about 5L of wort behind. Previous batch to this i only lost about 3.5L. The difference i have put it down it is the percent of malt that went into the grinder. I used 88% ground malt from the coffee grinder wheres last time i used about 60%.
Anything, i use whirfloc and whirlpooling. I put the tablet in a bit late (about 10 min of the boil) and for whirlpooling, once the beer was off the flame i waited about 10-15min, whirlpooled and waited another 20min before draining the wort into a cube.
Obviously im no chilling. Im also doing BIAB. This was planned to be 20L. and had about 23L in the kettle before draining.

My thoughs for so much trub are;
a.) Grinding up such a large portion of the malt may have caused all the trub, as it goes through the bag.
b.) Incorrect whirlpooling method, or too hot to whirlpool effectivly.

Anyway, what are your thoughts and advice? If i've missed any info please ask and ill provide info.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Hi guys,
Just complete a good brew day. However, when i was draining wort i had to leave about 5L of wort behind. Previous batch to this i only lost about 3.5L. The difference i have put it down it is the percent of malt that went into the grinder. I used 88% ground malt from the coffee grinder wheres last time i used about 60%.
Anything, i use whirfloc and whirlpooling. I put the tablet in a bit late (about 10 min of the boil) and for whirlpooling, once the beer was off the flame i waited about 10-15min, whirlpooled and waited another 20min before draining the wort into a cube.
Obviously im no chilling. Im also doing BIAB. This was planned to be 20L. and had about 23L in the kettle before draining.

My thoughs for so much trub are;
a.) Grinding up such a large portion of the malt may have caused all the trub, as it goes through the bag.
b.) Incorrect whirlpooling method, or too hot to whirlpool effectivly.

Anyway, what are your thoughts and advice? If i've missed any info please ask and ill provide info.

I leave mine for longer after the whirlpooling because it settles better and i get more wort, that said lots of members don't wait very long at all

 

[Nick JD]

Hi guys,
Just complete a good brew day. However, when i was draining wort i had to leave about 5L of wort behind. Previous batch to this i only lost about 3.5L. The difference i have put it down it is the percent of malt that went into the grinder. I used 88% ground malt from the coffee grinder wheres last time i used about 60%.
Anything, i use whirfloc and whirlpooling. I put the tablet in a bit late (about 10 min of the boil) and for whirlpooling, once the beer was off the flame i waited about 10-15min, whirlpooled and waited another 20min before draining the wort into a cube.
Obviously im no chilling. Im also doing BIAB. This was planned to be 20L. and had about 23L in the kettle before draining.

My thoughs for so much trub are;
a.) Grinding up such a large portion of the malt may have caused all the trub, as it goes through the bag.
b.) Incorrect whirlpooling method, or too hot to whirlpool effectivly.

Anyway, what are your thoughts and advice? If i've missed any info please ask and ill provide info.

Tip your kettle on an angle and pour the trub into a separate container through some voile. Let it settle, pour the clear stuff off and use it for starters or give it a quick boil and cool and add it into your fermenter - until you get your technique sussed out.

My freezer has about 8-10L of random trub savings in old yoghurt containers in it. I'm going to chuck them all in the kettle, boil then for ten minutes, cool and ferment a batch called "Allsorts" .

 

[Acasta]

Tip your kettle on an angle and pour the trub into a separate container through some voile. Let it settle, pour the clear stuff off and use it for starters or give it a quick boil and cool and add it into your fermenter - until you get your technique sussed out.

My freezer has about 8-10L of random trub savings in old yoghurt containers in it. I'm going to chuck them all in the kettle, boil then for ten minutes, cool and ferment a batch called "Allsorts" .

doesn't need to go on an angle as all the shit was at the tap level. Where do you put the voile? I tried that last brew but it wouldn't pass though. Whats your filtering process?

Bob, do you no chill? Is your grain ground in a grinder or crushed?

How can i get tighter more compact trub? I'm thinking 6L is a large loss, right?

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Bob, do you no chill? Do you wait longer after flame out or after whirlpool? Is your grain ground in a grinder or crushed?

Not really no chill more of a slow chill, I throw the pot in the laundry tub and replace the water a few times in the first ten minutes until the wort stops rolling around from the residual heat in the base etc.

Then whirlpool, then wrap it in glad wrap a lot whilst it is still a little steamy (kill some bugs hopefully), place the lid on, glad wrap some more drain the water a few more times and get it fairly cool (maybe 40 degrees) pull it out and place it on tiles and come back in the morning.

Works for me, no infections to date (touch wood) and no sourness (pretty damn air tight with all that glad wrap).

I use water in the tub to speed up the cooling and get aroma from and taste in my beers

 

[Acasta]

Well im buying a wort chiller off a fellow member tomorrow, do you think chilling then whirlpool will help? I did notice the stuff kinda moving around from the heat.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Well im buying a wort chiller off a fellow member tomorrow, do you think chilling then whirlpool will help? I did notice the stuff kinda moving around from the heat.

Not sure but have read that people do both way, it definitely helps if it's not rolling around though, things will settle where they should.

Are you doing singles or doubles?

Also forgot to add it last post, i use a coffee grinder.

 

[Acasta]

Singles. What about you? Whats the diameter of your tun? How much of the grist do you use the grinder on? how much trub losses do you have?

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Singles. What about you? Whats the diameter of your tun? How much of the grist do you use the grinder on? how much trub losses do you have?

All of the grain gets put through the grinder, not sure if i will keep doing this though because my efficiency compared to just cracked hasn't really jumped, I sit on about 70% into the fermenter no matter which way.

I still use the 19 ltr big W pot method, have a keggle etc but can't be bothered until the new house is built and i have the gas line, bottled gas is too expensive.

I normally loose around 2.5 to 3 litres but run it through paper towel and use them for starters, don't count this in efficiency though.

good luck hopefully someone has the answer, 5 litres is a lot

 

[felten]

if you have more particulate matter that can fall through the bag, then you're going to have more trub, I've used a coffee grinder before as well and I'm of the opinion that they really suck. Mills are cheap, get one!

 

[Acasta]

Ahh kk, how do you calc your efficiency?

Felton, i am considering a mill. Also in this batch there was about 50g of hops in there, as the last one only had 20g.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Ahh kk, how do you calc your efficiency?

Felton, i am considering a mill. Also in this batch there was about 50g of hops in there, as the last one only had 20g.

Hop pellets make bugger all difference, more the grain.

I just adjust my efficiency until my brew matches breersmith estimates, I know this isn't correct but asked a few times and no one has been forthcoming with a formula <_<

 

[Acasta]

I've been working with beersmith trying to get the right efficiency. Not sure what the correct way to calc it is. But for now im going with mash efficiency. Into fermenter eff for me is really bad because of the loss from trub.

Has anyone got a similar setup and a way to tackle this problem? really i just need a tighter trub cone.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Has anyone got a similar setup and a way to tackle this problem? really i just need a tighter trub cone.

What gear are you running, including pot, grain to water, do you sparge etc ?

 

[Acasta]

50L kettle, BIAB, 20L mash around 5-6kg grain, then 2 x 8L sparge

 

[rosswill]

One Whirfloc tablet for a 20L batch is way too much. Try half a tablet. More is not better for kettle finings.

 

[Acasta]

I did use half, forgot to mention that.
I only boiled for about 8-10 min, is this enough time?

 

[Nashmandu]

Ok, just going to throw it out there....
if you use a coffee grinder as apposed to a mill then you will be destroying your husk which in turn will cause you to extract alot more protiens during run off. these protiens then become solulible during you boil and hey presto, more trub.
you have also upped all ingredients used (hops 60%) (malt 30%)which oh my god... wait for it.... will also give you more trub.
A rookie mistake I know

 

[seemax]

My trub loss is around 2-3L, even with my last brew where I used 150g+ hops.

How high is your tap off the bottom? Do you have a pickup tube of sorts? Ideally you want the pickup to be at the outer edge of the pot and facing radially outwards and low (if that makes sense) to keep it away from the trub. This can be achieved with a bent piece of copper tube or a few right angle brass/stainless attachments... or buy a hop screen or similar.

I've used a basic strainer to filter the remaining wort, it gets most it. The voile is too fine and will take ages to drip filter, squeezing is a pain.

Alternatively you could just drain some of the crap into your NC cube, numerous posters are convinced it has no ill effects.

PS How did the chiller go?

 

[pk.sax]

Yea, all the trub settles into the feet of the cube and is deadset easy to to get the wort off from above if you have a tap fitted. From my exp, that stuff at the bottom is at least 50% wort. U could even try crash chilling the no chill cube to try and compact the trub in there.