Losses To Trub, Advice Needed.

[seemax]

Yea, all the trub settles into the feet of the cube and is deadset easy to to get the wort off from above if you have a tap fitted. From my exp, that stuff at the bottom is at least 50% wort. U could even try crash chilling the no chill cube to try and compact the trub in there.

For lagers this works out well... dump as much as you want into the NC, crash chill to settle all the trub ... let it warm to 8C or so then pitch your starter! Too easy...

 

[bcp]

"Stupidity is the the stepmother of invention" (me).

I don't use a hopsock, this recipe has some sweetened orange peel & i tossed it straight in. :blink: and only realised my stupidity when pouring off to the cube & it jammed the tap of my urn. Ended up scooping out with a jug into the cube, no whirlpooling, and got pretty much all the trub in the cube.

So when i tipped into the fermenter, (similar to Nick JD's voile), I found the kitchen sieve fits perfectly (absolutely snug) with the lid of my fermenter and i just poured through. Just a normal kitchen sieve filters it beautifully. It works so well i had to stir it to let more liquid through and it still filtered it.

Question: is there any harm in having so much trub in the cube? Otherwise, stuff whirlpooling - this does a much better job & is simpler. Loss to trub completely negligible - pretty much just solid matter.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I use a hop sock for hop pellets but I'm thinking of going commando and using the sock to strain the wort into my fermenter after whirlpool and chill.

 

[ekul]

The best thing i've found to make whirlpooling easy, and minimising trub loss is to use some flowers in the boil. The flowers really help the trub stick together after whilpooling. So much so that i use flowers for every batch, even 5g of something will help. ( I use at least 5g of super alpha @ 60 for bittering).

Also, use less whirfloc. I got told to use around a quarer tab for a 23L batch. It means the wort isn't as clear, but whats a little cold break in the fermenter anyway? If you use heaps of whirfloc its flocs everything out and makes very clear wort, but the trub will be light and fluffy and stir up easily (in my experience), making it hard to differentiate between hot and cold breaks.

And another easy way to minimse losses, have a really wide bottom kettle! I was using a wide kettle and the trub at the bottom after whirlpooling leaves a good 2 inches of space around the edges, even without hop flowers.

I used to lose 5-6L of wort to trub every time, now i'm lucky to lose any (especially using the hops flowers!). The trub is dry of wort and i get everything in the cube.

 

[RdeVjun]

I found the kitchen sieve fits perfectly (absolutely snug) with the lid of my fermenter and i just poured through. Just a normal kitchen sieve filters it beautifully. It works so well i had to stir it to let more liquid through and it still filtered it.

Indeed I found that too, a big kitchen sieve is an excellent trub/ hops filter and use one quite a lot (sometimes a colander) but I pour the whole lot through after kettle- chilling (in a 19L stockpot), so not No- Chilling as per the OP. Using leaf hops (so whole flowers or plugs) is a must though I find, forms quite a decent filter bed which traps much of the break and eventually every drop of wort can be poured through, so really quite efficient. Its also a very simple process, has no exotic or expensive components and so is well- suited to beginners, but actually suits me just fine too. Also, using WhirlFloc or similar seems to get it all aggregating nicely, fairly sure that helps but as ekul says, don't OD on it. I'd like to say I have some pictures of some nice clean wort filtered like this but I don't (task for self...).

Question: is there any harm in having so much trub in the cube? Otherwise, stuff whirlpooling - this does a much better job & is simpler. Loss to trub completely negligible - pretty much just solid matter.

No, no such harm as far as I'm aware, I leave the wort to cool on the whole lot. Yep, quite right- very efficient and simple recovery of clear wort. B)

 

[np1962]

Well im buying a wort chiller off a fellow member tomorrow, do you think chilling then whirlpool will help? I did notice the stuff kinda moving around from the heat.

This will definitely work better.
While you want to get the wort into a cube at as high a temp as possible if no chilling the convection movement while it is still near boiling will keep stirring up the trub.
Let your wort cool a little more before whirlpooling, then let it settle for at least ten minutes before running off.
If your sanitation is up to scratch the wort will still be hot enough when transferring that you should have no problems with infection.
Nige

 

[Acasta]

My trub loss is around 2-3L, even with my last brew where I used 150g+ hops.

How high is your tap off the bottom? Do you have a pickup tube of sorts? Ideally you want the pickup to be at the outer edge of the pot and facing radially outwards and low (if that makes sense) to keep it away from the trub. This can be achieved with a bent piece of copper tube or a few right angle brass/stainless attachments... or buy a hop screen or similar.

I've used a basic strainer to filter the remaining wort, it gets most it. The voile is too fine and will take ages to drip filter, squeezing is a pain.

Alternatively you could just drain some of the crap into your NC cube, numerous posters are convinced it has no ill effects.

PS How did the chiller go?

Haven't had a brewday since the swap actually, so i'll find out, but it bent to a nice shape easy haha.

My pickup faces flat, ie, straight into the pot. Its welded, so i can't fit a angled piece. I'm hoping the chiller will help some of the trub settle out, if not ill get a grain mill. Thanks guys.

 

[np1962]

Haven't had a brewday since the swap actually, so i'll find out, but it bent to a nice shape easy haha.

My pickup faces flat, ie, straight into the pot. Its welded, so i can't fit a angled piece. I'm hoping the chiller will help some of the trub settle out, if not ill get a grain mill. Thanks guys.

Some of your problems are being caused by the pick up tube, it will be pointing straight into the trub cone.
The trub is made up of hop debris, hot break, grain particles in your case and once you start chilling you will also have cold break.
Is there any way you could slide a bent tube over the existing pickup so you are siphoning from the outer edge of your pot?
Nige

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Or, take your mash paddle, and after you whirlpool, put it into your pot between the outlet and the trub cone to act as a diverted plate. Similar effect as the pick-up tube facing outwards.

Also, I always wait till I can't see any movement from heat, then whirlpool, giving your big arsed metal burner/stand a quick squirt with the hose can speed that period of waiting up. There is still a hell of a lot of heat trapped in a burner after the flame is put out, that will go up into your pot and cause even more convection currents.

 

[Acasta]

Some of your problems are being caused by the pick up tube, it will be pointing straight into the trub cone.
The trub is made up of hop debris, hot break, grain particles in your case and once you start chilling you will also have cold break.
Is there any way you could slide a bent tube over the existing pickup so you are siphoning from the outer edge of your pot?
Nige

hmmm, can't really add that piece, as its RIGHT at the bottom, and the whole is quite small, about a 5cent piece, but not round haha. if problems persist, ill try fitting something in.

Or, take your mash paddle, and after you whirlpool, put it into your pot between the outlet and the trub cone to act as a diverted plate. Similar effect as the pick-up tube facing outwards.

Also, I always wait till I can't see any movement from heat, then whirlpool, giving your big arsed metal burner/stand a quick squirt with the hose can speed that period of waiting up. There is still a hell of a lot of heat trapped in a burner after the flame is put out, that will go up into your pot and cause even more convection currents.

i did this mash paddle trick too (near the end of draining) and it somewhat worked. I also took the pot right off the burner onto the bricks to cool. However, i must have whirlpooled while it was too hot.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

hmmm, can't really add that piece, as its RIGHT at the bottom, and the whole is quite small, about a 5cent piece, but not round haha. if problems persist, ill try fitting something in.


i did this mash paddle trick too (near the end of draining) and it somewhat worked. I also took the pot right off the burner onto the bricks to cool. However, i must have whirlpooled while it was too hot.

Is your 50L pot a converted keg??

Because no matter how hard I tried, no matter what tricks i used... I never got a whirlpool to work in my converted keg kettle. It always just ended up a uniform layer of sludge.

One of of the reasons I traded up to a flat bottomed stock pot instead.

At any rate - 4L to trub is not out of order for BIAB brews. With time and using all the tricks in the book, you might get it down a fair bit lower - but even in a big arsed flat bottomed pot where I get a good whirlpool and good cone formation.. I still lose 2 or more liters to trub in a BIAB brew. Mind you, I do not like getting trub into the cube, so I am fairly fussy.

 

[Acasta]

Its vertical sides, but the bottom is kind of dome-ed on the bottom. I did get s decent trub cone, however, there was also a layer of trub on the bottom. This could have been due to my hot whirlpool.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Domed up? Convex from the inside?

Thats a good thing for whirlpools.... If the bulge is very very slight? If it's more than that, then the trub cone tends to fall to bits as the edges can slide off down the slope once the wort levels drop below the top of the cone, or if the cone gets a bit battered by currents from draining out the wort.

The other way, domed down... Well, as i said, i could never get a proper result from whirlpooling in something as deeply "dished" as a converted keg - but that could just be my lack of skill - but a quite shallow bowl, that shouldn't be an inherent problem, you will lose more wort to trub than flat or domed, but it should be a little easier to get very "clean" wort from the stuff you do recover.

 

[Acasta]

Domed down, sadly. About 1cm down.

 

[Acasta]

I did another batch after using my immersion chiller. While i was happy with how the beer was chilled super fast, it meant i got some cold break and a whirl pool didn't help with the insane amount of trub i had. I used .5 Whirfloc for 20min in about 30L, could this have screwed it up? Not sure. Anyway, i'm considering a grain mill again.

Any thoughts?

 

[seemax]

When i used my insinkerator mill which made almost flour I got loads of trub using BIAB.
Since getting a monster mill I get very little even when i've used a stack of hops. My typical waste is around 2L.

Why not just drain the 4L or so "waste" wort into a sanitised container, crash chill to settle the crap... that should get you another 3L almost. Add this to your fermentor prior to pitching?

I love my mill... in conjunction with bulk grain buys and imported hops... it's now a case of brew whatever i want whenever i want

 

[Acasta]

Yeah i guess so. I think i might get a grain mill. Do you no-chill seemax? the copper coil is amazing.
I was going to collect wort and chill it but i got lazy haha.

 

[peaky]

Is your 50L pot a converted keg??

Because no matter how hard I tried, no matter what tricks i used... I never got a whirlpool to work in my converted keg kettle. It always just ended up a uniform layer of sludge.

My kettle is a converted keg and the whirlpool trick dosen't really work that well. I also get a uniform layer of sludge on the bottom of the kettle instead of a cone, even when I stir the crap out of it and leave it for 30 minutes after chilling and using whirfloc. I was losing about 4 litres to trub. I made a small hop screen/false bottom the other day at work, test drive next weekend, hopefully that will lower the amount I lose to trub.

 

[Acasta]

I ended up siphoning the wort off the top, i guess it was easier.

 

[themonkeysback]

I used .5 Whirfloc for 20min in about 30L, could this have screwed it up?

No expert but from reading I have done previously (can't remember if it was on AHB or elsewhere) the recommendatios for how long to boil whirlfloc seemed to be a lot shorter than this, as longer boiling apparently decreases how effective it is. I am sure they advised <10 mins and potentially even 5mins or less.

Adam.