Looking For Some Recipe Advice - Apa

[bouncingcastle]

Hey guys (and girls),

Just after a once over on my recipe. I'm onto about my 6th AG, and I seem to be struggling a bit with my APA's (sad, I know). They tend to lean to the malt side of things, rather than the bitterness/hop flavor/aroma that I'm looking for.

I think I have nutted it out, beersmith shows an IBU:SG of about 0.91 which should be the right amount of balance, but before I brew it, I was just looking for some feedback.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 30.00 L
Boil Size: 38.06 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 16.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 44.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.65 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 91.87 %
0.30 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 4.88 %
0.20 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 3.25 %
30.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 22.0 IBU
30.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 13.6 IBU
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (10 min) Hops 5.3 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
25.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -


0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6.15 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 16.04 L of water at 71.9 C 65.6 C

Thanks in advance

Chris.

 

[razz]

Drop the Melanoidin, gives a distinct malty taste. Have you made this brew before BC ?

 

[Jye]

Why not remove the crystal and melanoidin and see how it turns out? Then you can build the malt bill back up.

You could also try moving the 60min hops to 20min for that extra hop hit.

 

[bouncingcastle]

Drop the Melanoidin, gives a distinct malty taste. Have you made this brew before BC ?

Thanks for the replies guys,

This is a recipe I've been working on (now in it's 4th generation). I started as just a single grain brew, and have been trying new specialties to give a little bit more complexity to the grain bill (as I felt that was lacking originally).

Last recipe came out too caramelly, so I dropped back the crystal, and removed the caramalt completely. I haven't used melanoidin before, and thought that it might bring a nice malt flavour that I could balance out with a bigger hop regime.

I might try moving the cascade addition forward 20 minutes (from 60 to 40) and see how that goes with a bit of added flavour).

Any suggestions on a replacement for the melanoidin? I want something with a little bit of colour, and maybe a bit of malt flavour (but not too over the top, as the melnoidin seems to be)

Cheers!

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Thanks for the replies guys,

This is a recipe I've been working on (now in it's 4th generation). I started as just a single grain brew, and have been trying new specialties to give a little bit more complexity to the grain bill (as I felt that was lacking originally).

Last recipe came out too caramelly, so I dropped back the crystal, and removed the caramalt completely. I haven't used melanoidin before, and thought that it might bring a nice malt flavour that I could balance out with a bigger hop regime.

I might try moving the cascade addition forward 20 minutes (from 60 to 40) and see how that goes with a bit of added flavour).

Any suggestions on a replacement for the melanoidin? I want something with a little bit of colour, and maybe a bit of malt flavour (but not too over the top, as the melnoidin seems to be)

Cheers!

I like the look of what you have done malt wise and given your past experimentations sounds like you have an idea on where you want to go. 200g of melanoidan is okay - I like it but I was making more european style ales. I don't like only Maris Otter beers - I reckon it needs what some crystal / melanoidenflavours brings. If you have any roasted barley / carafa, I suggest you add a touch for colour to get a darker (more amber) effect. Not too much to add a burnt flavour, just a touch.
My only personal dislike is mixing cascade & amarillo at the same time. Both have similiar alphas but I like to add something higher for bitterness (simcoe for instance) then bash in either cascade or amarillo at the end. My opinion only, but I reckon they "confuse" each other. I like one or the other, not both.

Get back with your final results cos it looks good to me,

 

[Stuster]

I seem to be struggling a bit with my APA's (sad, I know). They tend to lean to the malt side of things, rather than the bitterness/hop flavor/aroma that I'm looking for.

If you are trying to get it more balanced to hops than malt, I think the melanoidin is not right. I'd actually suggest dropping the JW Crystal and trying some Caramunich instead. To me, it works really well in an APA.

For the hops, I'm not sure what you used last time, but what you have this time looks fine to me. You could also add more at flame out, and cut back the dry hopping a touch. Only a minor thing though, and more personal taste than anything. The hop schedule you have is fine.

 

[SJW]

Why not remove the crystal and melanoidin and see how it turns out? Then you can build the malt bill back up.

You could also try moving the 60min hops to 20min for that extra hop hit.

Great advice for a 6th AG brew.This is one I want to try next, it's working with the late hopping theroy. The trick with APA's is to keep em simple.

APA

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright
Boil Size: 30.64 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg - Ale
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4000.00 gm Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 72.07 %
1000.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 18.02 %
500.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 9.01 %
50.00 gm Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1000.8 EBC) Grain 0.90 %
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 16.7 IBU
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (15 min) Hops 10.3 IBU
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (1 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.21 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 %
Bitterness: 32.0 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l
Est Color: 19.0 EBC Color:

 

[Batz]

My problem with APA's for years was the malt profile,to bloody malty,like you SJW I added munich,I add munich to most my brews.
APA's IMO do not need munich,vienna etc,you don't want too much malt in this beer,straight pale or even ale is my advise.I like it fairly dry as well so I mash in 63-65 deg.Of course this is my tastes only.
So for me no munich and definitely no chocolate,up the pale to compensate

Batz

 

[bouncingcastle]

Thanks guys, fantastic responses! Exactly what I was looking for.

This is a 4th revised hopping schedule, so I'm glad it looks like I finally got it right!

As for the grain bill... The general consensus here is that the melanoidin needs to go... Done

I will up the mariss to compensate.

I will also drop the JW crystal and replace with caramunich...

Sound good? Or did I miss the point completely?

 

[warra48]

With all due respects, I think an IBU/SG ratio of .091 is on the high side.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory of keeping the malt profile simple, so long as it is balanced.

My best APA I've brewed, to my taste, has a ratio of 0.719, and has fantastic hop flavour and aroma. It's a hit with all I give it to.
This one was mashed at 66C, OG 1.060 FG 1.016. US05 dry yeast.

4250.00 gm Pale Ale (5.9 EBC) Grain 83.33 %
500.00 gm Munich (15.0 EBC) Grain 9.80 %
200.00 gm Wheat (4.0 EBC) Grain 3.92 %
50.00 gm Amber (100.0 EBC) Grain 0.98 %
50.00 gm Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 0.98 %
50.00 gm Crystal (220.0 EBC) Grain 0.98 %
15.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60 %] (60 min) Hops 10.8 IBU
12.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] (60 min) (First Wort HopHops 9.1 IBU
20.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60 %] (15 min) Hops 7.1 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops

Edit: spelling