Looking for Bundaberg Ginger Beer clone recipe

[Chookers]

alright, new approach.. this is the final one cause I've run out of demijohns.. but as soon as I get my bench capper.. I am going to try the pasteurization method to preserve sweetness and kill yeasties.

I am not sure about it and it seems very scary. but my idea was to put the bottles in from cold water maybe on something in the pan so they are not touching the bottom, and heating the water to 60 degrees.. I have read on a number of sites that yeast will die over 55 degrees. If I raise the temp to 60 and leave it for 10mins and then allow them to cool in the pan would this kill off all the yeast and halt fermentation?

Also would my chances of explosions be less the lower my temp is?

 

[lael]

Hi chookers,
I generally bottle pasteurise my apple cider. The higher the temp the lower the time you need / the greater the margin of error (more likely to kill yeast/get entire bottle hot enough). However, the hotter you pasteurise the more likely you are to blow up the bottles during the process or potentially affect the taste.

I've done 75C for 10mins and 65C for 10mins. Both worked. I would recommend using only the coopers long necks as they are more durable or champagne bottles.

Put the bottles into a milk crate or similar as soon as you pull them out so worst case any explosions are contained. Similarly, I leave the lid on the brew rig when the bottles are heating up.

I've had a few bottles have their crown seals blown off during the pasturising process, but only one (a thinner 650ml type from a HB shop) explode over the three batches I've done. It is incredibly scary, and I won't use that bottle type again for cider/pasteurising. I think the shear stress on the glass from going from hot to cold (it was winter) was also not the best.

Starting to keg now, so may not pasteurise much again actually.

 

[Blind Dog]

Just a thought, but if you make up beersuit's recipe or similar to 3L you'll have a home made ginger cordial that you can then mix in a ratio of 1:4 with cheap as chips soda water as required. My old man used to make it that way years ago after he go fed up with the glass demijohns exploding in the cellar at night.

 

[Chookers]

lael, sounds like a good method.. I was interested in doing cider as well but later on if this all works out.. I would keep the lid on the pot just in case of explosions.. my long necks are from plasdene glass http://www.plasdene.com.au/shop-menu/beverage/beer/glass-2/glass-im-640-1402-am-detail I hope they will be strong enough.

fingers crossed.

At least doing it this way I'll be able to control the flavour better.

 

[lael]

I don't have any experience with them, but weigh one vs the coopers ones to get a weight and divide by the volume to give a rough glass weight vs volume measure. Just keep the lid on the pot and move them quickly into a milk crate. If you can line the crate with cardboard or other then do that too. The explosion I had was after pulling it from the hit water and sitting on the deck. From 75c to 15c (winters day), placed the bottle down, turned around, stepped away and bent down to pick something up and bang! It was quite honestly scary. I would encourage you to be safe rather than sorry. I'm thinking about seeing if I can get a function center to give me old champagne bottles to use for pasteurising. Seriously not worth a body full of glass shards or losing an eye.

lael, sounds like a good method.. I was interested in doing cider as well but later on if this all works out.. I would keep the lid on the pot just in case of explosions.. my long necks are from plasdene glass http://www.plasdene.com.au/shop-menu/beverage/beer/glass-2/glass-im-640-1402-am-detail I hope they will be strong enough.

fingers crossed.

At least doing it this way I'll be able to control the flavour better.

 

[Airgead]

I am not sure about it and it seems very scary. but my idea was to put the bottles in from cold water maybe on something in the pan so they are not touching the bottom, and heating the water to 60 degrees.. I have read on a number of sites that yeast will die over 55 degrees. If I raise the temp to 60 and leave it for 10mins and then allow them to cool in the pan would this kill off all the yeast and halt fermentation?

Also would my chances of explosions be less the lower my temp is?

You would have to make sure that was hot enough through the whole liquid, not just the hot water in the pan. The liquid inside the bottles will be significantly cooler than the liquid in the pan so just getting the pan to 60 and leaving it for 10 mins will not be enough. Even 60 is going to be enough to get a sure pasteurisation. From memory 75 for 10 mins is the minimum. If you use 60 the time gets exponentially longer. There are tables online.

Cheers
Dave

 

[lael]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pasteurization-methods-temperatures-d_1642.html

This is the one I used last time, which is why I upped the temp from 65 to 75. After a few months the carb on the 65s were creeping up. At around 6 months I was in a rush to finish opening the batch

 

[Airgead]

And remember... That's the temp as measured at the centre of the bottles. So to get 75 for 15 seconds you might need 30 mins or more to let the temp ramp up.

A chemical pasteurisation using sulphites and sorbate might be more reliable. But then you are stuck bulk carbing rather than bottle conditioning.

Cheers
Dave

 

[lael]

And remember... That's the temp as measured at the centre of the bottles. So to get 75 for 15 seconds you might need 30 mins or more to let the temp ramp up.

A chemical pasteurisation using sulphites and sorbate might be more reliable. But then you are stuck bulk carbing rather than bottle conditioning.

Cheers
Dave

Good point Dave - I actually left mine for 10mins @ 75. I'm not a process engineer, so am unsure about how pressure affects heating, but I did put a temp probe into a non-capped, water filled bottle to test and in my rig found it hit 75 at around 6-7mins. Putting the bottles in drops the temp down by around 5 degrees C from memory, so I think I started upping the temp on the rig. Bottles would go in, temps drop, then heater would turn on and pull them out around 10mins later and the temp would equalise. It was certainly not exact, so I erred on the side of caution and often left bottles in longer. Of course the hotter they are - the more pressure builds up in the bottles and the more likely you are to have explosions in the pasteurising process.

I would like to build a perforated stainless 'cage' / caddy for putting the bottles in and out of the brew rig with - put them in cage, put the whole thing in the water, heat, remove the whole thing, wait to cool.
Everything is contained if anything goes bang. Use a few caddies to rotate.

 

[Chookers]

would there be a temp difference in the pot of water and bottles if I started them off from cold and the water in the pot from cold, so they all heat up together? or would the bottles still be cooler?.

 

[Chookers]

lael, thanks for the link was very helpful.. I know it was for milk, and that's probably not going to be carbonated.. that would be weird..

I am reminded of the mashing technique of turning on the oven to 70 and then off once you put your mash in.. Same could be done with the pasteurization? get it to 63-65 degrees and put in a preheated oven for 30-60mins and check the heat at the centre when it comes out... (then quickly put lid back, and pray for no explosions)
then let cool at its own pace.. next day put in fridge.????

 

[lael]

It doesn't really matter. I found the issue was going from hot to cold. I assume because the contents were hot and the air temp was fairly cold. I'm assuming that the glass has issues and breaks as the outside of it gets cold and the contents are still hot, shrinking at different rates and the glass shears and can't handle the high internal pressure. Hence my suggesting to use a thicker glass.

Getting a tirage bell is simple enough, and pretty sure getting used champagne bottles from a function center should not be too hard.

 

[lael]

lael, thanks for the link was very helpful.. I know it was for milk, and that's probably not going to be carbonated.. that would be weird..

I am reminded of the mashing technique of turning on the oven to 70 and then off once you put your mash in.. Same could be done with the pasteurization? get it to 63-65 degrees and put in a preheated oven for 30-60mins and check the heat at the centre when it comes out... (then quickly put lid back, and pray for no explosions)
then let cool at its own pace.. next day put in fridge.????

Certainly could and I would imagine would be safer. Depends on how quickly you want to pasteurise a batch

The other option would be to transfer them to room temp water bucket. Water absorbs explosions etc incredibly well

 

[Chookers]

If its going to kill the yeast and be safe, I would be willing to wait quite awhile.. Im pretty patient.

 

[idzy]

I think what some people do in canning, is to place the bottles/cans/jars in the water, heat the water up and then let it naturally cool. This would resolve the hot/cold problems, but it means that the pasturisation process is more time consuming.

 

[idzy]

By the way, had a nice alcoholic version on tap the other day. Lick Pier Ginger Beer, 4.0%.

 

[Chookers]

I love Lick Pier, that would have been my next one.. now I'm going to have this weird combination of all the failures. It'll end up being close to 20L.. from previous similar experience this can go either way, some delicious awesome fluke, or some disgusting swill you wouldn't even feed your weeds.

I put this all down to learning and will not make those mistakes again.. just gotta get the flavour right.. and the feel.. its so thin. I wonder if more sugar would give it some body. Its close to ginger tea at the moment.