Long Bitter aftertaste after swallowing

[losp]

God i hope this is not another infection. I would rage...

Just tested the gravity of a couple of batches and gave it a little taste. Both of them have this long sort of bitter (wouldn't say sour) aftertaste that i couldn't taste a week ago.
They are both sitting on about 1015 or there about right now and have probably 1 or 2 more days to go.
I dont generally brew anything with more than say 30+IBU so I am hoping, that that is what it is.

1 of them is an extract, one is AG. Both had 1.5 packs of US-05.

Here is the A/G recipe if it helps:

22 L
75 Minute Boil + No Chill
Ingredients

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
3880.00 g Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 66.3 %
1300.00 g Amber Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 3 22.2 %
235.00 g Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 %
235.00 g Carared (24.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.0 %
175.00 g Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.0 %
28.00 g Roasted Barley (700.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.5 %
18.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 8 15.8 IBUs
17.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 9 22.9 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 10 -
28.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 12 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.8 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 38.7 IBUs Calories: 427.1 kcal/l
Est Color: 13.1 SRM

 

[manticle]

Chinook is very piney/resiney.
Have you brewed this recipe before?

 

[roverfj1200]

I would back it in that the chinook is to blame. Its a hop I am yet to use well. It always throws a lingering bitter flavour in my brews. Not to say its a bad hop. It will mellow on conditioning but can take some time.


Cheers.

 

[dago001]

I would agree as well that is couod be the Chinook - I brewed a few ales recently using chinook as the bitterimg hop and had the same flavour you described. I no longer use chinook for bittering, only use it for late additions.
Cheers
LagerBomb

 

[manticle]

I like a hint of the pine when I make an apa to balance the fruit salad of other c-hops. I use a small bittering charge and a very small flameout addition.

 

[slash22000]

Personally I love the "harsh" bitterness from resinous hops like Chinook and CTZ, in an IPA or something similar.

I think your problem might be that you are almost 10 points under your expected gravity. You've got 39 IBU's in a 1.046 beer, BU:GU ratio of 0.85, which is at IPA levels of bitterness. It's only going to taste more bitter as the gravity drops. You say that you don't normally brew hoppy beers, sounds like your tongue is not ready for hops of this magnitude!

Delicious, delicious magnitude ... :mellow:

 

[losp]

Thanks guys. the thing that troubles me is the other batch i did. is an extract brew APA with perle hops 40IBU. And it has a similar taste. Its a bitter taste, but its a soft lingering bitter, that stays long and stands out rather than a crisp bitterness. Just that both of them have it, it makes me worry that its an infection. There was no same piece of equused on both batches though...

I think i might just stick it out. and leave it in there for a while and hope it mellows or drops out.

 

[losp]

Personally I love the "harsh" bitterness from resinous hops like Chinook and CTZ, in an IPA or something similar.

I think your problem might be that you are almost 10 points under your expected gravity. You've got 39 IBU's in a 1.046 beer, BU:GU ratio of 0.85, which is at IPA levels of bitterness. It's only going to taste more bitter as the gravity drops. You say that you don't normally brew hoppy beers, sounds like your tongue is not ready for hops of this magnitude!

Delicious, delicious magnitude ... :mellow:

10 Points under? I expected 1.010 which i think it will reach. Your right that i dont often brew hoppy beers. But i do drink them.

Edit: Oh now i see. You meant actual vs expected OG? Ill remove that. its wrong, its copied from beersmith. I hit my estimated OG (or close enough)

 

[dent]

Your hop regime seems a bit wierd to me - why the 45 minute additions of american hops? The character of hops at that length of boil is going to be greatly diminished with no benefit I can see, unless it is some kind of no-chill compensation. You can get some nice hop character out of a "bittering" addition (like a POR lager), but only really when there is nothing else to muddle it up.

I'd change the recipe to some clean bittering hop like Magnum at 60 minutes for the bulk of your IBUs, your amarillo/chinook/whatever at 15 minutes or below since you're a no-chiller. That's my opinion anyhow.

Aside from that, some infections certainly suck away all your malt character and leave behind a thin, bitter, really unbalanced crap beer behind. So there's that.

 

[losp]

Your hop regime seems a bit wierd to me - why the 45 minute additions of american hops? The character of hops at that length of boil is going to be greatly diminished with no benefit I can see, unless it is some kind of no-chill compensation. You can get some nice hop character out of a "bittering" addition (like a POR lager), but only really when there is nothing else to muddle it up.

I'd change the recipe to some clean bittering hop like Magnum at 60 minutes for the bulk of your IBUs, your amarillo/chinook/whatever at 15 minutes or below since you're a no-chiller. That's my opinion anyhow.

Aside from that, some infections certainly suck away all your malt character and leave behind a thin, bitter, really unbalanced crap beer behind. So there's that.

I have bittered with chinook and perle before and it has come out nice. I havent with cascade though I admit. I havent used these recipes before either.
No chill it is said adds bitterness to something like an extra 15 minutes of boiling. These days I am leaning more towards 10 minutes.

 

[dent]

I'm sure you have, it just didn't seem ideal.

A while back I brewed a simple pale lager once, but by the time it was in the kettle I discovered I was out of Magnum or a suitable substitute. Looking in the fridge, I found some Columbus in there, about 14%AA or whatever it was. "It's just for bittering, It'l be good enough!" I reckoned, at the time. That bittering was the most harsh, lingering, ****** bittering in a lager I have ever made, it pretty much made the whole beer undrinkable. So I learnt my lesson.

I'm not saying Chinook or whatever for bittering will always make a crap beer, I just think one should stick to the strengths of the ingredients.

 

[manticle]

I agree. Chinook leaves a character when used for bittering, as do many other hops. It can be a welcome character but for me, appropriate hops for appropriate beer, regardless of aa or when used in the boil.

 

[mabrungard]

You don't mention what your water is like. The 5 gm of CaCl2 is a healthy dose, but not crazy high. If the tap water already has elevated ion concentrations, then it is possible that the dose was too high. But a more likely problem could be that the water has elevated alkalinity and the pH of your mash and wort in the kettle was higher than desirable. High wort pH can cause the hops and their bittering to be rough and coarse. Another ion to watch out for is Mg. You definitely don't want it higher than 40 ppm and 30 ppm is a safer upper limit. That ion can create an astringent bitterness in the finished beer.

Good luck with it!

 

[philmud]

OT - the title of this thread made me laugh!

On topic, sort of, are there particular rules to follow when subbing bittering hops? As in hops that are generally used for bittering? Eg; using PoR as the first addition in an APA? Would you be likely to notice a difference?

 

[losp]

You don't mention what your water is like. The 5 gm of CaCl2 is a healthy dose, but not crazy high. If the tap water already has elevated ion concentrations, then it is possible that the dose was too high. But a more likely problem could be that the water has elevated alkalinity and the pH of your mash and wort in the kettle was higher than desirable. High wort pH can cause the hops and their bittering to be rough and coarse. Another ion to watch out for is Mg. You definitely don't want it higher than 40 ppm and 30 ppm is a safer upper limit. That ion can create an astringent bitterness in the finished beer.

Good luck with it!

Thanks for your response
I based my additions on the assumption (i know, i know...) that my water was similar to that of this document. http://melbournebrewers.org/images/stories/BrewWiz/key%20concepts%20in%20water%20treatment.pdf

would my additions be enough to cause such a taste?

My second question is why would this taste be more or less non existent at the start of fermentation and overbearing by the end, if not infection?

 

[manticle]

Are you on a melbourne water supply?

 

[losp]

Are you on a melbourne water supply?

Yep Surrey Hills manticle.

 

[manticle]

Brun knows a lot about water but is us based and can't be expected to know every local au supply. However your additions in your water supply shouldn't create what you are tasting.

 

[losp]

Brun knows a lot about water but is us based and can't be expected to know every local au supply. However your additions in your water supply shouldn't create what you are tasting.

Thanks Manticle. Do you think it could be bleach? Ive been having some infections so i decided to soak my fermenter in bleach. I rinsed several times but perhaps there is still enough in there to case this horrible taste?

 

[manticle]

Unrinsed bleach will generally result in band-aid/dettol type flavours. If using bleach, rinse with boiling water and a seperate sodium met solution. Exercise caution with all 3, rinse well again with boiling, then starsan or iodophor.