Liquid Yeast Dormant, Need Help Quick!

[jakester]

Pitched my first liquid yeast (Whitbread) last night at about 11:30 and stuck it in the fermenting fridge at about 20 degrees. I checked it just then expecting a nice foamy head but nothing has changed at all.
I was a bit worried last night as i smacked the pack at about 9pm and was waiting for the bag to swell alot but over 2 hours later not much had changed with the pack and i was too tired to wait any longer so pitched it in as i poured my wort from my no chill cube into fermenter.
What do i do? as i said this is my first liquid yeast experiment and as we brew double batches, the other fermenter copped a pack of dried us05 and is already under way while mine lays dormant. This was gonna be a test to see what different yeast does for the exact same brew.
So any help will be greatly appreciated, do i just wait, throw in a pack of us05? Anything?

 

[jbirbeck]

Pitched my first liquid yeast (Whitbread) last night at about 11:30 and stuck it in the fermenting fridge at about 20 degrees. I checked it just then expecting a nice foamy head but nothing has changed at all.
I was a bit worried last night as i smacked the pack at about 9pm and was waiting for the bag to swell alot but over 2 hours later not much had changed with the pack and i was too tired to wait any longer so pitched it in as i poured my wort from my no chill cube into fermenter.
What do i do? as i said this is my first liquid yeast experiment and as we brew double batches, the other fermenter copped a pack of dried us05 and is already under way while mine lays dormant. This was gonna be a test to see what different yeast does for the exact same brew.
So any help will be greatly appreciated, do i just wait, throw in a pack of us05? Anything?

wait.

I've had a few smack packs that have taken a while to swell and a few that have and its taken a while to get a decent krausen...give it more time. Look tomorrow.

 

[Flash_DG]

I'd wait and give some more time

 

[jakester]

Cheers guys, will wait and see. Was just surprised the dried safale was quicker to react than the liquid yeast. Time will tell then i guess.

 

[brendo]

Pitched my first liquid yeast (Whitbread) last night at about 11:30 and stuck it in the fermenting fridge at about 20 degrees. I checked it just then expecting a nice foamy head but nothing has changed at all.
I was a bit worried last night as i smacked the pack at about 9pm and was waiting for the bag to swell alot but over 2 hours later not much had changed with the pack and i was too tired to wait any longer so pitched it in as i poured my wort from my no chill cube into fermenter.
What do i do? as i said this is my first liquid yeast experiment and as we brew double batches, the other fermenter copped a pack of dried us05 and is already under way while mine lays dormant. This was gonna be a test to see what different yeast does for the exact same brew.
So any help will be greatly appreciated, do i just wait, throw in a pack of us05? Anything?

The amount of cells in a pack, is JUST enough for a normal batch at the time of manufacture. As you get furher away from the manufacture date, yeast cell viability goes down. Depending on how old the pack was, you might have ended up underpitching - resulting in a significant lag time.

When using liquid yeast, I always make a starter. This does a couple of things:

1. allows me to check the viability of the yeast
2. gives me the opportunity to taste the starter prior to pitching into brewed wort to ensure there are no issues
3. makes sure I have enough cells to properly pitch into my wort for a good strong ferment.

Jamil Z has pulled together a handy pitching calculator to help you determine starter size based on a number of variables (including age of yeast). check it out Mr Malty Pitching Calc

My general practice is:

1. Consult pitching calc for starter size
2. Cook up some 1.030 - 1.040 wort from DME and cool
3. Smack pack
4. Pitch into starter and let ferment out (usually 8-12 hours)
5. Crash chill yeast starter for 6+ hours, pour off liquid (leaving behind yeast slurry and some liquid), allow to warm up to pitching temp and pitch

or

pitch at high krausen from starter.

I prefer the first option as I don't worry too much about temp control on my starters, so don't want anything tainting the actual wort. If you were going to use the second option, it is probably worth using wort form the actual batch as your starter medium.


As to your current case - I agree with the others completely - check it tonight, you will probably have krausen.

Cheers,

Brendo

 

[BoilerBoy]

The amount of cells in a pack, is JUST enough for a normal batch at the time of manufacture. As you get furher away from the manufacture date, yeast cell viability goes down. Depending on how old the pack was, you might have ended up underpitching - resulting in a significant lag time.

When using liquid yeast, I always make a starter. This does a couple of things:

1. allows me to check the viability of the yeast
2. gives me the opportunity to taste the starter prior to pitching into brewed wort to ensure there are no issues
3. makes sure I have enough cells to properly pitch into my wort for a good strong ferment.

Jamil Z has pulled together a handy pitching calculator to help you determine starter size based on a number of variables (including age of yeast). check it out Mr Malty Pitching Calc

My general practice is:

1. Consult pitching calc for starter size
2. Cook up some 1.030 - 1.040 wort from DME and cool
3. Smack pack
4. Pitch into starter and let ferment out (usually 8-12 hours)
5. Crash chill yeast starter for 6+ hours, pour off liquid (leaving behind yeast slurry and some liquid), allow to warm up to pitching temp and pitch

or

pitch at high krausen from starter.

I prefer the first option as I don't worry too much about temp control on my starters, so don't want anything tainting the actual wort. If you were going to use the second option, it is probably worth using wort form the actual batch as your starter medium.


As to your current case - I agree with the others completely - check it tonight, you will probably have krausen.

Cheers,

Brendo

IMHO I reckon Brendo is spot on!
I follow a near exact process and it removes all the hope and guess work.

After brewing I add aprox 1L of the new wort to the yeast wait 4-6 hours until high activity then pitch, been doing this method for about 4 years now and it has never failed and no more angst!

all you can do is wait now.

Cheers,
BB

 

[Screwtop]

Pitched my first liquid yeast (Whitbread) last night at about 11:30 and stuck it in the fermenting fridge at about 20 degrees. I checked it just then expecting a nice foamy head but nothing has changed at all.
I was a bit worried last night as i smacked the pack at about 9pm and was waiting for the bag to swell alot but over 2 hours later not much had changed with the pack and i was too tired to wait any longer so pitched it in as i poured my wort from my no chill cube into fermenter.
What do i do? as i said this is my first liquid yeast experiment and as we brew double batches, the other fermenter copped a pack of dried us05 and is already under way while mine lays dormant. This was gonna be a test to see what different yeast does for the exact same brew.
So any help will be greatly appreciated, do i just wait, throw in a pack of us05? Anything?

Another....Ready......Fire......Aim :lol:

Ivesy, when you want to try something new, spend a ittle time browsing AHB, do a search on the subject. Get yourself as familiar as you can with the subject BEFORE trying it for the first time. We're all here to help, better to be well prepared.

What you have learnt: Use a pitching rate calculator. Smack the pack and wait until it is swollen......as long as it takes. Make a Starter. Pitch while most active, high krausen. Aerate your wort before pitching with a whisk or something similar. Aerate again after 12 hrs if krausen has not formed. Maintain suitable fermentation temperature.

Should be fine, hurry up and wait.......might benefit from a good whisk if no krausen has formed.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Bribie G]

I doesn't do any harm to smack the pack the night before you are going to make up your starter, leave it somewhere at a reasonable temperature like say 22 degrees and have a look at it the next morning. Assuming it's swollen (otherwise leave longer) as Brendo says make up a boiled then cooled wort in a sterile jar and add the yeast, shake well for some oxygen every time you walk past, and let it rip for a day. I pitched a Wyeast Irish Ale a couple of days ago and the starter took off so vigorously I pitched later that same day and it had good krausen in the fermenter the next day.

Tip re starter bottles: they very often don't behave like mini fermenters, they can look like nothing is happening but if you swirl, the krausen puffs up then subsides almost immediately. I use Schott (lab) bottles and leave the cap open just a crack. So when the starter is well under way if I swirl, and I get a good strong "hiss" from the escaping gas, she's just about ready to pitch.

:icon_cheers:

 

[jakester]

Definately have learnt my lesson about reading up on here first before i try anything new, i just thought i would start off basic and follow the instructions on the pack then i cant go wrong.
I also didnt know if i could leave the yeast in the pack till the next day after its smacked, so i thought it was better to pitch it rather than leave it.
The bad news is i just got home and still no activity, so i gave it a shake to try and give it a kick.
If it is still dormant in the morning i will have to hydrate some us05 and hope for the best i guess. Or am i wrong again?
Thanks for the advice.

 

[manticle]

Even if you pitch directly without making a starter (which you should always do as far as I'm concerned) you still need to smack and allow time to swell. Recommended time (different from the packet instructions but that's nothing new) is half a day for each month since manufacture. Works for me every time (although I also make starters and don't pitch until there's at least some definite krausen - high krausen being optimum).

Starters cannot be more highly recommended than Screwtop's or Brendo's suggestions. I received some yeast (probably half a teaspoonful) in the mail about 3 or 4 months ago (thanks Gavo). I built it and built it and built it (thinking all the time, this is taking too long, I should pitch, maybe I should try a different yeast etc etc). I calmed myself and waited. The brew was a no chill so it could wait too. Finally when I believed she was probably ready - high krausen, bult up from 500 mL to 1 L to 2 L to a bit more, I pitched into the wort. Next day brew (1062 wort) looks like my teeth when I brush them in the morning.

By the way - I always make starters but from full packs of wyeast or 1/3 - 1/2 longneck of slurry so 1/2 a teaspoon was a new thing for me.

Give her a day, give the fermenter a shake and a cuddle and she'll be firing in no time.

PS - when you say no activity have you measured the gravity to see if it's lower than the original or are you just waiting for super foam vesuvius?

 

[Screwtop]

Definately have learnt my lesson about reading up on here first before i try anything new, i just thought i would start off basic and follow the instructions on the pack then i cant go wrong.
I also didnt know if i could leave the yeast in the pack till the next day after its smacked, so i thought it was better to pitch it rather than leave it.
The bad news is i just got home and still no activity, so i gave it a shake to try and give it a kick.
If it is still dormant in the morning i will have to hydrate some us05 and hope for the best i guess. Or am i wrong again?
Thanks for the advice.

Take the wooden spoon (sanitised of course) to that bad boy, aerate it.


Screwy

 

[jakester]

Good news, got a nice krausen going this morning, gave it a good shake last night before bed and i think it ruined a good nights sleep worrying about it. Its amazing how much time homebrew is actually on the mind.

Well now i will have to do a search about liquid yeast, from pitching to collecting and building up starters. I used to hydrate my dried yeast in a glass and a teaspoon of sugar as suggested in a beer mag. Now i know there is a lot more to it there will be a lot more reading to do.

I actually ordered a pack of the Pacman yeast as recommended by my LHBS owner Pat, so i thought i would use this as a stepping stone to kick things off.

I'm off to look for a sticky or posts relating to this topic, once again thanks for all the replies.

 

[Gavo]

Even if you pitch directly without making a starter (which you should always do as far as I'm concerned) you still need to smack and allow time to swell. Recommended time (different from the packet instructions but that's nothing new) is half a day for each month since manufacture. Works for me every time (although I also make starters and don't pitch until there's at least some definite krausen - high krausen being optimum).

Starters cannot be more highly recommended than Screwtop's or Brendo's suggestions. I received some yeast (probably half a teaspoonful) in the mail about 3 or 4 months ago (thanks Gavo). I built it and built it and built it (thinking all the time, this is taking too long, I should pitch, maybe I should try a different yeast etc etc). I calmed myself and waited. The brew was a no chill so it could wait too. Finally when I believed she was probably ready - high krausen, bult up from 500 mL to 1 L to 2 L to a bit more, I pitched into the wort. Next day brew (1062 wort) looks like my teeth when I brush them in the morning.

By the way - I always make starters but from full packs of wyeast or 1/3 - 1/2 longneck of slurry so 1/2 a teaspoon was a new thing for me.

Give her a day, give the fermenter a shake and a cuddle and she'll be firing in no time.

PS - when you say no activity have you measured the gravity to see if it's lower than the original or are you just waiting for super foam vesuvius?

Good advice there on starters, and good to hear it went well.

A starter is a good way to to also "proof" the yeast. I have just used the last of the gen 1 yeast I had that manticle is talking about (don't worry I still have some Gen 0). When I opened the vial it had the smell of Vegimite, autolysis would be the reason, made a starter out of it and it was fine and the resultant beer is great. I had another vial of havested yeast and it had strong vegimite smell, well once again I still made the starter and it took ages to get going and ended up rank so it was discarded and new yeast bought.

A little of the OP topic I know, just emphasising the value of a starter.

Gavo.

 

[big78sam]

My general practice is:

1. Consult pitching calc for starter size
2. Cook up some 1.030 - 1.040 wort from DME and cool
3. Smack pack
4. Pitch into starter and let ferment out (usually 8-12 hours)
5. Crash chill yeast starter for 6+ hours, pour off liquid (leaving behind yeast slurry and some liquid), allow to warm up to pitching temp and pitch

or

pitch at high krausen from starter.

I have a question about kicking off wyeast. It seemed to fit well here so I didn't bother with a new thread, sorry to highjack a bit.

I have a wyeast I smacked about 3 months ago and stepped up to 2.5 litres. 1.5 litres went into a brew and the other 1L was spread among 4 bottles and went into the fridge. Bottles were sanitised. the 1L was fully fermented out and given a good shake/swirl to ensure the yeast was evenly distributed amongst the bottles.

On Friday I made a starter of 1/3 cup malt extract and 1.5L water and tipped the contents of 1 yeast bottle plus starter (all at about 18 degrees) into a sanitised 2L PET. I should probably have stepped up to 1.5L in stages (and will do so next time). The whole thing has been sitting at about 22 since.

I saw hardly any activity since I pitched 3 and 1/2 days ago. I was going to pitch at high krausen but have just measured SG of the starter and it's about 1010 (I forgot to measure OG of starter and I'm not sure what FG I should expect in a fully fermented out starter) so I'm guessing the lack of apparent activity caused me to miss high krausen. There was nowhere near as much activity as when I stepped up the full smackpack or when I have recultured coopers yeast. My question is... If I do as brendo suggested and crash chill, pour off, warm up and pitch will this still be OK given I didn't start with a full pack, but just my small sample? Option 2 - I've no chilled so will it be OK if I follow the above instructions up to the point of pitching and then open the cube, pour say 1 litre of wort into the starter bottle instead of pitching into the full fermenter to give it a bit more of a chance to start up. I'd immediately reseal the cube after squeezing out the air but I don't want to give the whole batch a chance to get infected by exposing it to air. As I can't tell high krausen easily in the PET if I pitch 8 hours later will this be about right?

 

[Flash_DG]

Here is a nice tut on making slants Link would be a nice place to learn how to make your Pacman go a little further.

I am yet to try this out but have plans on using it on some 3068

 

[Gavo]

Option 2 - I've no chilled so will it be OK if I follow the above instructions up to the point of pitching and then open the cube, pour say 1 litre of wort into the starter bottle instead of pitching into the full fermenter to give it a bit more of a chance to start up. I'd immediately reseal the cube after squeezing out the air but I don't want to give the whole batch a chance to get infected by exposing it to air. As I can't tell high krausen easily in the PET if I pitch 8 hours later will this be about right?

Don't open the cube until you are ready to pitch. For a start if the yeast does kick back off you will have an exposed wort and no yeast. Better option, if you are not sure of high krausen, would be to make a new starter with some boiled and chilled DME as you have done on Friday and watch it for activity. You will then have a better idea of the viability of your yeast without risking the whole batch.

Gavo.

 

[manticle]

That's the advantage of having a tap on your cube. I started my 1272 with dme and boiled cooled water and stepped it up by introducing the wort from the cube in stages so it could adjust to the appropriate profile. No need to open the cube.

How much slurry is in the bottom of the PET bigsam? If it looks like there's enough then you could just pitch. Otherwise you can step up again from what you have and keep a closer eye as Gavo suggested. The no chill will wait.

 

[big78sam]

How much slurry is in the bottom of the PET bigsam?

A tap on the cube is a great idea!

I placed in the fridge an hour and a half ago to crash chill and there is about 7 mm or slurry in the bottom of each of the 5 "stumps" of the 2L PET. There's a thin layer over the middle of the base of the bottle. I think I will follow the above suggestion and pour out the top 2/3rds of the starter after a few more hours in the fridge and add some more boiled extract/water to the PET tonight to step it up a bit more.

I really don't want to underpitch as I found the 1187 Ringwood took a while last time despite regular swirling of the fermenter. It is the only smackpack I've used to date so I'm not sure if this is because it's a high flocculating yeast or whether I underpitched last time as well.

You're right manticle. The cube can wait. I'm just impatient as I've run out of beer!

 

[big78sam]

Too late to edit my last post but manticle FWIW the beer in question is your robust porter from the recipe DB.

 

[manticle]

Hope it turns out well for you. It's worked for me twice now (with good feedback from all who've tried it so far) so with some minor tweaks it's made it onto the regular brew list.