Leffe Radieuse Recipe?

[Swinging Beef]

Bring some to RAF (please)

Belgian ales at RAF make baby scotty cry

 

[jakub76]

Wow!
Inspired by this thread I went out and bought a smallie of Leffe Radieuse and a couple of other yummy Belgians to go with my belgian brew day. I can not beleive how close this beer is to my last dubbel, based on JZ's recipe. Seriously, I smelt it and went "no way!", then a taste and I seriously could not believe how close this beer is to my last homebrewed Begian Dubbel. I thought they were identical...so I poured one of mine aswell so I can compare them side by side.



I marked the glasses coz I know I would have got them mixed up in no time. 'L' on the left is the Leffe and 'M' on the right is mine. Here's my recipe straight out of the brew log...

JZs Belgian Dubbel
With Hallertau instead of Tettnanger + 30g more candi syrup (1/2 a 500ml bottle)

ALL GRAIN 22 litres

4.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingermans)
450g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
230g Special B (120L)

370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
230g White Sugar

20g Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.3% (2008) 60min
10g Hallertau Mittelfruh 6.3% (2009) 60min (using up stores)

Yeast WLP530 starter made 4 days early then fed 1st runnings. Very active.

16IBU (Tinseth / 22 IBU Rager) based on 70% efficiency

1.064 OG recorded 1.012 FG Recorded
6.5% ABV + .2% priming (120g Dextrose) = 6.7%

Added 1/3 tsp of bicarb to 17L mash water adding alkalinity to cater for 12-18SRM

I fermented at 18C finishing at 21C. These beers are SO DAMN CLOSE! Drinking them side by side there are some subtle differences and I would tweak the recipe a little if I was going for a clone. The most prominent being the more obvious alcohol warmth in the leffe, both in aroma and flavour.

The aroma is almost identical, dark fruit sweetness...where the Leffe opens up at the tail end with a slight solvent note, my dubbel seems to close with a nutty finish, perhaps just a touch more intense dark fruit too - but very, very close.

Both have complex, rich fruit flavours. Again the Leffe dissipates with alcohol warmth, very balanced thoughout while my lingers a bit longer and finishes sweet. I personally prefer Chiimay Red - I'm a sucker for caramel - so I have since changed my recipe to reflect a move in that direction...however if I wanted to clone Leffe Radieuse there's not much I would change. I reckon the malt bill is pretty much spot on but I'd add more of the base pilsener to match the ABV.

I would up the IBU's to around 20 Tinseth - I get no late hop character from the Leffe, definately a bit more bitter but no obvious Saaz or Styrian Goldings flavour so I'd stick to Hallertau at 60 min.

As far as water profile...I would look at upping the sulphates balance slightly, my soft water favours chlorides at about 3:1 so I'd throw in some salts to get the calcium to 50ppm and the chlorides to sulphates balanced.

I would up the carbonation to 160g dex looking for around 2.8 gravities.

For a clone of the Leffe, I reckon the WLP530 is definatley the same yeast profile. I was a bit underwhelmed, I prefer the clovy spiciness of Chimay Red but I have no doubt that the Leffe and mine share the same yeast profile - seriously I cannot beleive how close these beers are!

Now that they're both warm (I've been writing this for a while) the Leffe is revealing a hint of roast that wasn't there earlier and mine seems a lot more 'drinkable' (dangerous). I have a six pack or so left of my dubbel and I would be more than willing for a reputable brewer to come by and do the pepsi challenge, byo Leffe Rad of-course

Cheers

 

[Dazza_devil]

Wow!
Inspired by this thread I went out and bought a smallie of Leffe Radieuse and a couple of other yummy Belgians to go with my belgian brew day. I can not beleive how close this beer is to my last dubbel, based on JZ's recipe. Seriously, I smelt it and went "no way!", then a taste and I seriously could not believe how close this beer is to my last homebrewed Begian Dubbel. I thought they were identical...so I poured one of mine aswell so I can compare them side by side.

View attachment 41184

I marked the glasses coz I know I would have got them mixed up in no time. 'L' on the left is the Leffe and 'M' on the right is mine. Here's my recipe straight out of the brew log...

JZ's Belgian Dubbel
With Hallertau instead of Tettnanger + 30g more candi syrup (1/2 a 500ml bottle)

ALL GRAIN 22 litres

4.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
450g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
230g Special B (120L)

370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
230g White Sugar

20g Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.3% (2008) 60min
10g Hallertau Mittelfruh 6.3% (2009) 60min (using up stores)

Yeast WLP530 starter made 4 days early then fed 1st runnings. Very active.

16IBU (Tinseth / 22 IBU Rager) based on 70% efficiency

1.064 OG recorded 1.012 FG Recorded
6.5% ABV + .2% priming (120g Dextrose) = 6.7%

Added 1/3 tsp of bicarb to 17L mash water adding alkalinity to cater for 12-18SRM

I fermented at 18C finishing at 21C. These beers are SO DAMN CLOSE! Drinking them side by side there are some subtle differences and I would tweak the recipe a little if I was going for a clone. The most prominent being the more obvious alcohol warmth in the leffe, both in aroma and flavour.

The aroma is almost identical, dark fruit sweetness...where the Leffe opens up at the tail end with a slight solvent note, my dubbel seems to close with a nutty finish, perhaps just a touch more intense dark fruit too - but very, very close.

Both have complex, rich fruit flavours. Again the Leffe dissipates with alcohol warmth, very balanced thoughout while my lingers a bit longer and finishes sweet. I personally prefer Chiimay Red - I'm a sucker for caramel - so I have since changed my recipe to reflect a move in that direction...however if I wanted to clone Leffe Radieuse there's not much I would change. I reckon the malt bill is pretty much spot on but I'd add more of the base pilsener to match the ABV.

I would up the IBU's to around 20 Tinseth - I get no late hop character from the Leffe, definately a bit more bitter but no obvious Saaz or Styrian Goldings flavour so I'd stick to Hallertau at 60 min.

As far as water profile...I would look at upping the sulphates balance slightly, my soft water favours chlorides at about 3:1 so I'd throw in some salts to get the calcium to 50ppm and the chlorides to sulphates balanced.

I would up the carbonation to 160g dex looking for around 2.8 gravities.

For a clone of the Leffe, I reckon the WLP530 is definatley the same yeast profile. I was a bit underwhelmed, I prefer the clovy spiciness of Chimay Red but I have no doubt that the Leffe and mine share the same yeast profile - seriously I cannot beleive how close these beers are!

Now that they're both warm (I've been writing this for a while) the Leffe is revealing a hint of roast that wasn't there earlier and mine seems a lot more 'drinkable' (dangerous). I have a six pack or so left of my dubbel and I would be more than willing for a reputable brewer to come by and do the pepsi challenge, byo Leffe Rad of-course

Cheers

Looks good.
When did you add the Candi Syrup and Sugar?
What amount of the Pilsner Malt would be acceptable in a partial with extract and the rest of the grain bill. Would you decrease the amount of Munich as well?

 

[jakub76]

Looks good.
When did you add the Candi Syrup and Sugar?
What amount of the Pilsner Malt would be acceptable in a partial with extract and the rest of the grain bill. Would you decrease the amount of Munich as well?

I put the sugars in towards the end of the boil.
I don't do many extracts but I guess you could mix Pilsener and Munich extract and just steep the specialty grains. Or you could do a partial with the munich and specialty and use however much pilsener extract hits your numbers, but if you're already mashing the munich why not just go the whole hog. Here's my tweaked recipe...

5.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
450g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
230g Special B (120L)

370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
300g White Sugar

42g Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.2% 60min - 20 IBU (Tinseth)

Yeast WLP530

1.075 OG estimated 1.015 FG estimated
7.9% ABV + .3% priming (160g Dextrose) = 8.2%

I've still got a half bottle of the dark candi so I might have to give this revision a go.

 

[white.grant]

23 litre batch, 60% eff
7kg pils
.2 cr120
.1 melanoiden
.1 roast
.2 munich
30g northern brewer 60min 20IBU
50G tetenang 60min 20IBU
10g saaz flameout
1kg sugar
SG 1080
FG 1010
Wyeast 3787

Do not add the sugar till two weeks into fermentaion or once gravity is below 1020
You need a huge starter or 250ml or so of slurry.
Start fermentation at 16 deg for one week.
Raise temp to 18 deg for another week.
Drop in sugar, raise temp to 22deg till final gravity reached.

I'm going to have a go at this today. Will be keen to see how it turns out.

cheers

grant

 

[Swinging Beef]

I have a six pack or so left of my dubbel and I would be more than willing for a reputable brewer to come by and do the pepsi challenge, byo Leffe Rad of-course

Cheers

Hmm... sounds tempting... where do you live in Sydney? :icon_cheers:

The beers in the photo look incredibly close!
Great stuff.

 

[Sciclone]

After reaffirming my liking of the Radieuse, I'm going to give this one a crack next. Although I might reduce the candi syrup just slightly, to make sure I don't get the metho-y taste some of the heavier Belgian ales get.

 

[dr K]

After reaffirming my liking of the Radieuse, I'm going to give this one a crack next. Although I might reduce the candi syrup just slightly, to make sure I don't get the metho-y taste some of the heavier Belgian ales get.

Complex beers do not require a complex blend of ingredients, the complexity is created by the yeast and the brewer, using many malts will more likely muddy than clarify.
Were I to this:
First pick your yeast (there are a number of suitable strains)
Dingemaans Pils as base is best option, Weyermann Bohemian Pils too has a good malt backbone or a European Pale Ale malt , used by a good brewer Barrett and Burston or Joe White Pale is fine if not the best choice.
You are going to start high (SG) and as a result finish high so no matter what base grain you use you will have/can have a good malt backbone, its just easier with Ding Pils.
Of course you may need an additional dimension, Abbey or Aromatic (either or not both) would be a good choice.
The killer ingredient may be D2 Dark Candi Sugar syrup (easily available), this will add colour and its own complex mix of figs and chocolate, of course if you have chosen to add a heap of various dark malts as well you either have to cut the qty of the D2 or end up with too dark a beer.
If you were to go this way the malt bill would be something like
Ding Pils or sub as base
Some aromatic at 5% (optional)
D2 to required EBC.


K

 

[Bongchitis]

I like the way you roll Dr K.

 

[McFeast]

any recent updates to these Leffe Radieuse recipes?

 

[raven19]

Similar version to Jakub's above is in my fermentor, and probably ready to bottle soon. Will report back once ready to sample.

Brewed a triple batch with Maltyhops a few months back, his won't be fermented for a while yet though as I understand.

 

[MaltyHops]

About the only thing we can add that hasn't been mentioned before is we
figured to mash in at 65C - which Jakub also agreed with - for 90 mins
and mash out at 78C for 10 mins (according to Rav's brewsmith record).
We also left out the white sugar as we reached the target OG without it
- somehow we managed to get an efficiency of 80% on Rav's awesome rig.

Interestingly, I had an extra 7L or so of wort that I put into tupperware
containers full to the brim and froze for future use. The expanding ice
caused malt treacle to be force out of the containers and drip onto the
freezer floor - probably lost a few SGs' worth :angry: Probably a good
idea to leave a cm or so clearance below the brim when doing this.

I plan to ferment mine in July during Uni mid-year break and look forward
to being able to compare our efforts with the real deal.

T.

 

[Akavango]

I put the sugars in towards the end of the boil.
I don't do many extracts but I guess you could mix Pilsener and Munich extract and just steep the specialty grains. Or you could do a partial with the munich and specialty and use however much pilsener extract hits your numbers, but if you're already mashing the munich why not just go the whole hog. Here's my tweaked recipe...

5.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
450g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
230g Special B (120L)

370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
300g White Sugar

42g Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.2% 60min - 20 IBU (Tinseth)

Yeast WLP530

1.075 OG estimated – 1.015 FG estimated
7.9% ABV + .3% priming (160g Dextrose) = 8.2%

I've still got a half bottle of the dark candi so I might have to give this revision a go.

Hello Jakub,

This recipe is going on my short list. couple of questions,
What temperature was the mash at and what about the sparge? How long was the mash?
What about the boil? 90'?
How long did you ferment before you bottled?
Thanks.

 

[balconybrewer]

.

 

[MaltyHops]

Had occasion to crack open the half bottle that was the remainder
from bottling of my first batch a few weeks ago ... Deee-vine! :icon_drool2:
Not sure how well it compares to the real stuff - looking forward
to getting Jakub's feedback on it - but it is tasting real good.

I ended up fermenting my first bacth at 18C all the way through
(without the ramp up to 21C towards end of primary as Jakub
suggested) - the gravity stopped dropping after about two weeks
and I ended up leaving it on the yeast cake for another two weeks
or so before chilling down to about 5C for a day before racking to
bulk prime and bottling.

I pitched about two cups of the WLP530 slurry that I thought had
the most yeast into my second batch and this one took off much
faster with gravity getting down to about 1010 after about one week
- again at 18C all the way through. This one seemed to be a bit
dryer than the first batch, will have to wait for bottling to check
this more closely.

T.

 

[Akavango]

Tested a bottle of mine next to the real thing and it is extremely close. A great recipe!
It had been in the bottle for 7 weeks so it could use some more ageing but it was fantastic already.
Thanks for the great recipe.

 

[Dazza88]

great beer. and i got wyeast 3787, may have to try it out.

 

[jeremy]

Hey all,

Sorry about the old thread but I am eager to give the recipe Jakob posted above a go and I have an issue, I haven't been able to source any Aroma Malt, so I have picked up some Caraaroma instead.

What do people think about substituting Aroma for Caraaroma? I presume the sensible thing to do would be to drop back the Special B, and/or the CaraMunich to compensate?

I put the sugars in towards the end of the boil.
I don't do many extracts but I guess you could mix Pilsener and Munich extract and just steep the specialty grains. Or you could do a partial with the munich and specialty and use however much pilsener extract hits your numbers, but if you're already mashing the munich why not just go the whole hog. Here's my tweaked recipe...

5.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
450g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
230g Special B (120L)

370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
300g White Sugar

42g Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.2% 60min - 20 IBU (Tinseth)

Yeast WLP530

1.075 OG estimated � 1.015 FG estimated
7.9% ABV + .3% priming (160g Dextrose) = 8.2%

I've still got a half bottle of the dark candi so I might have to give this revision a go.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

 

[tiprya]

Aromatic is a stronger Munich-ish malt. Caraaroma is a dark crystal malt, similar to Special B.

It's not a straight sub at all, so you should drop some of your Special B (so the total dark crystal malt is similar) and due to the lack of aromatic, I'd drop more of the pilsner and replace it with more Munich.

 

[Nick JD]

The spec malts are not very important in this beer compared to the dark syrup and the 3787.

As long as you hit the EBC it'll taste very similar.