Leffe Blond Belgian Abbey Beer

[Major Arcana]

G'day Fellas

I am planning to make this in the next few days it was a recipe I have copied and converted all the imperial measurements into metric, please give me your thoughts if you could, I am a big fan of the Leffe Blonde,


OG: 1070
FG: 1020
ABV:6.47%
19.5 LITRES


Fermentables:

3kg Light Dry Malt Extract
285gm Belgian Candi Sugar
170gm Maltodextrin

Steeping Grains:

115gm Belgian Biscuit
115gm Belgian Aromatic
115gm German Munich Light
60gm Canadian Honey Malt (amber malt?)

Hops:

21gm Centennial for 60min
14gm East Kent Goldings for 5min

Yeast:

Wyeast - Belgian Ardennes 3522


Priming with 1/2 Cup Corn Sugar and 1/3 Cup Belgian Candi




Would love to hear your thoughts on this i already have all the grains cracked and in a bag mixed ready to use though. This will be the most difficult extract i have made to date but am ready to give her a go.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[manticle]

As far as I know, all of those grains need mashing. Should be ok as long as you can keep the temp between 60 and 70. Not sure how much surplus enzymes will be in the mix as neither biscuit nor aromatic have any of their own but with the small amount you have it will hopefully work ok.

I'd drop the centennial and use more ekg or get some styrian goldings. You'll need extra to get the same ibu but styrians are great in a belgian.
I never mastered extract belgians but sone of my more recent AG ones have worked better - not because of the grain so much but yeast handling.
My tips - big, active starter, sugar added when fermentation has slowed rather than at the start, pitch cool and allow to warm up over several days, cold condition for at least a week (I prefer 3-4) when fermentation and primary fermentation is done. Ardennes yeast is not the leffe yeast as far as I know but it is a good yeast and that plus the biscuity characters from the toasted malts and the slight mandarin/apricot/vanilla character from styrians will get you a delicious belgian pale.

 

[Blind Dog]

There's a good thread on here that discusses cloning leffe blonde in some detail (search for leffe blonde; I'd link it but can't at the moment)

I'd question centennial as the bittering hop, saaz, Styrian goldings, hallertauer or EKG are better option IMO

I'd also question a final gravity of 1020. To me leffe is complex, but fairly dry. More like 1012 or so

 

[manticle]

Missed the fg. I agree - you'd be looking at a range of 1008-1012 although it can be hard to get extracts that low. Drop the maltodextrin.

 

[indica86]

http://brewerschoice.com.au/leffe-blonde/ <<< I have made that one.
Nice it was, not sure how it compares to the original.
I used MJ's Belgian....

 

[Major Arcana]

Thanks for the advice fellas, i did make sure that the grains used were able to be steeped the recipe was under extracts and it does call for them to be steeped also so i am pretty certain i should be okay with them, Manticle when you say add the sugar later into the fermentation how do i go about this? Wouldn't that change the OG? I have never done a Belgian beer before and this is only the 6th Batch i will have ever done and my third full extract, so it is a little bit of a step up in a way.
I don't mind changing the Hops etc but the whole process of temperature control will be a little difficult as i won't have my fridge for a few weeks at least.
Just trying to make it as easy for myself as possible.

cheers

Dan

 

[manticle]

Where's the recipe from mate? I strongly question that all those grains are 'steepable' unless the recipe also suggests a 'steep' in 65 degree water. Steepable grains can be steeped in hot or cold water, mashing grains can't.

To add sugar late in fermentation, wait until the gravity drops to roughly finished, then boil up the sugar in some water. Gently add the solution to the brew. With that amount you'd be fine to add hot - just don't splash. Then let it ferment out again.

To be honest, with that small amount, you're probably fine just to add at the beginning - my stronger belgians often have up to a kilo of candy or dextrose so I add a portion at a time. Adding too much too early or too much at once has resulted in hot alcohol flavours in previous attempts - something I never get with incremental feeding.

Obviously the gravity will go up again but the total gravity/abv of the brew will be the same if you hit required FG. You may need to slightly adjust hop additions (specifically bittering) - just run through software with and without the sugar addition to see if there's much difference.

 

[Blind Dog]

Agree with Manticle on the steeping of the grains. I naively assumed you were conducting a mini-mash.

IIRC, steeping at 65-66C for 30-40 minutes should be about right. You’ll need to find a way to keep the temperature reasonably steady (esky, gentle heat [keep any grain bag off the bottom of the pot], wrap it in a sleeping bag/old dooner etc)

 

[Major Arcana]

Thanks Fellas

When i went to get these grains from my LHBS, most of the grains i asked for were replaced or copied i did let them know i was doing all exctract etc so i would be steeping. The biggest mistake i made was not remembering or writing down what they compensated with. The people at my local store TWOC are quite knowledgeable so i do trust them.

this is the website for the recipe.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/73402/leffe-blonde-clone-v2

What are your thoughts?

I think i may change that yeast also.

 

[black_labb]

With some exceptions I personally avoid using american recipes for non american beers for a couple reasons.

Firstly they tend to use american ingredients for no reason other than they are common in america instead of the ingredients that are actually used in the country of origin. In australia it is usually easier to get the original ingredients used than the american substitute (which is often questionable from the start IMO). American C hops are not ideal bittering hops for every style of beer.

Secondly I often find that american recipes often over complicate recipes well beyond what the original recipe would have been. Instead of a base malt and 2 specialty malts you often find small amounts of many different specialty malts as of there is a belief that they are all 1 dimensional and to get a multidimensional beer you need little bits of many ingredients.

In this recipe you would be better off mashing the grains not steeping them, and you probably want to use a base malt (pilsener is my reccomendation) to give them some enzymes. The munich isn't going to provide enough enzymes.

Personally I'd recommend another recipe. If you want to stay with this one I'd recommend:
- replacing the bittering hops with more something else (more EKG adjusted for bitterness would be fine).
- I'd drop the Maltodextrin and add more DME, more grain and/or additional candy sugar
- They bottle with a combination of belgian candi sugar and corn syrup for some reason. Just use belgian candy sugar, dextrose or white sugar. Corn syrup is just used as it it is a common american ingredient.
- replace the 4 malts added with 2 or 3. Maybe 300g munich (or vienna for more enzymes) and 150 biscuit, melanoidin or similar toasted malt. You would do just as well to use 500g munich in this to keep it simple.

Most of these recommendations have been made above already.

 

[Major Arcana]

Thanks for the advice black_labb i currently am not mashing as yet but as i mentioned in a previous post these grains have been milled and crushed for me and are vacuum sealed in a bag ready to use. If i can get away with using these grains that would be good im just going to steep them in 66 degree water for 35minutes and i will replace the centennial with EKG and maybe Styrian?

This bloody recipe is throwing me off a little bit now haha, this is the first time i would have used the Belgian Candi, also the Belgian liquid yeast, and will also be my first attempt at bulk priming. Geez what a great recipe to try all this out on eh.

 

[black_labb]

I don't mean to turn you off. The recipe as is will work out well but it is overcomplicated and is more mucking about than necessary to source small bits of the different ingredients. If you've done the hard work of sourcing all the small quantities of different ingredients then you've overcome most of the questionable aspects of the recipe.

 

[mckenry]

i currently am not mashing as yet

im just going to steep them in 66 degree water for 35minutes

Yes you are !!

Thats all mashing is. Basically keeping grain in the conversion temperature range which (again, normally 64-68). I'll leave the more in depth explanation for you to read up on.

 

[Major Arcana]

I don't mean to turn you off. The recipe as is will work out well but it is overcomplicated and is more mucking about than necessary to source small bits of the different ingredients. If you've done the hard work of sourcing all the small quantities of different ingredients then you've overcome most of the questionable aspects of the recipe.

Thanks black_labb like you mentioned i have sourced all the small grains etc and have them all mixed together ready to go, i will drop the maltodextrin and also use EKG for bittering and maybe throw a bit of Styrian in. Can you recommend maybe changing the yeast from Ardennes to something else perhaps?

Thanks for the help

 

[manticle]

Stick with the ardennes. If it's not enough like leffe for your liking and you think it's yeast strain related, adjust your recipe. Too many variables makes it hard to learn and it's really guesswork until you've made it.

If you haven't already got the yeast and are really wanting to change, I'd go 1214 (this is the chimay strain -= fermenting too warm gets very banana like in my experience) or 1762. In a pinch you could use 1388 (the duvel strain - lovely yeast and works well but might not have the characters you are chasing).

 

[Major Arcana]

Thanks Manticle, i understand what you are saying in if i don't like the taste, where would i even start trying to change it when i have all these different grains etc going in? In all honesty the taste of the Leffe has a distinct wheat note to it. Can you recommend a yeast that can subtle that distinct wheat note at all?

 

[manticle]

If you mean a grain/bready character, that is more likely malt than yeast although some yeasts accentuate malt character. I don't find leffe to be what I would call wheaty.
Ardennes and your grains will be fine.