Lashes of 150

[Ninegrain]

My friends have bought into the Tapking franchise after finding them on sale for very cheap price. They now have a collection of the bottles and are on to me to refill them will my brew. They have had a sample of my brews over the last year or so and have been kind in their comments but they have never drank a lot of it nor committed funds to cover ingredient. Both of which they are about to do...
So! Since the 150 lashes is their favourite of the Tapking offerings I thought I would make a similar style brew (in appearance) but pimp it out to make a hoppier, fuller bodies brew.

I will post my current recipe below and my main questions are how would you anticipate the ibu to balance out with the malts I am using as well as the flavour combination from the hops. I would like to have a much more in your face tropical hop flavour and aroma with a decent bitterness but nothing too extreme for their fragile pallets. Around 30ibu is in my mind a good target to achieve this, especially with the limited crystal grains, but what are your thoughts?

46l batch size
No-chill & all cube hopped
Mash around 68'c for 90 mins (single infusion BIAB)

5kg Pilsener
5kg wheat malt
400g Carapils
200g Biscuit (or other low ebc crystal...carahell?

40g Amarillo
40g Galaxy
30g Nelson Sauvin

And dry hop with 10g of each hop.

1056 American ale yeast @ 18'c

 

[Yob]

No to galaxy and Nelson together in those amounts.. For my tastes anyway

 

[mkstalen]

Looks like way too much Wheat malt.

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/285662/james-squire-150-lashes-clone

 

[Ninegrain]

Ok.. Fair call on the move

Even in a 46l batch? I was hesitant as well so no biggie changing it. Was thinking of willamette, as it's apparently in the original, or ahtanum, centennial or something else entirely...waimea??

 

[Ninegrain]

Looks like way too much Wheat malt.

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/285662/james-squire-150-lashes-clone

Yes I agree. However I am more aiming for a beer that is only visually similar while being much more punchy then the original, so not a clone per se. Also the idea of a 'Wheat ale' appeals, as does the discount for 5kg lots from CB...

 

[slcmorro]

1056 American ale yeast @ 18'c

FYI - This is just liquid US05. Might be cheaper to go with dry packets instead. Unless you're making a starter (which I presume you are, being that you're doing a double batch?) rather than using 2 x liquid yeast packs.

 

[GABBA110360]

I've been plying with this one for about 6 brews now.
its still not there .
the current hop bill is
POR 30 @ 60
WILLERMATE 15@20
AMARILLO 15
CENTENIAL 15
NELSON 5 ALL @ 10
AMARILLO 25 @ flameout
46 l /no chill
i'm drinking it as I type it's good but not the same

 

[Ninegrain]

FYI - This is just liquid US05. Might be cheaper to go with dry packets instead. Unless you're making a starter (which I presume you are, being that you're doing a double batch?) rather than using 2 x liquid yeast packs.

Yep that it is, but I am using the dry packs from CB http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=851

It is a 46 L batch that will be split into 2 with a 12g pack going into each. It will actually be 40L of wort post boil, split into 2x cubes then made up to 23L each once in the fermenter...that way I get a few stubbies as a bonus after the kegs are full.

I've been plying with this one for about 6 brews now.
its still not there .
the current hop bill is
POR 30 @ 60
WILLERMATE 15@20
AMARILLO 15
CENTENIAL 15
NELSON 5 ALL @ 10
AMARILLO 25 @ flameout
46 l /no chill
i'm drinking it as I type it's good but not the same

Cheers. While I like the original 150, I dont think it has enough oomph, so I am trying to finish what it started with more and a slightly different combination of hops. Colour and appearance wise though I really like it.

 

[Blind Dog]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Just my 2c, but unless you understand how the hops play together hop combinations can easily end up muddled and disappointing, like when you mixed paint as a kid and always ended up with brown if you added too many colours.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]IMO Nelson Sauvin with citrus / tropical hops sounds great in theory, but I’ve never brewed a combination yet that was anything better than OK (and have stopped trying), it just seems to make everything dull or weird tasting. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Anyway, in your original I’d think about subbing out the NS for Citra, Centennial or even Cascade to the same IBUs. Any of those with Amarillo and Galaxy seem to work together well, at least to my taste[/SIZE]

 

[Ninegrain]

Yeah I know what you mean blind dog. I have used a lot if NS in a few beers and too much in one so know how funky it can be if used incorrectly (onion??).

I will probably go with one of those you mentioned and I'm leaning toward centennial atm but will sit on it until next week to make my decision

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Nelson Sauvin plays with Cascade, Centennial and Chinook very well. Galaxy and Citra are okay with it, but for me it's now "all in or all out" with any of the three of them.

The other big elephant in the room - they're getting you to brew beer for them and covering your costs? This could prove to be very straining on the friendship quickly, as you spend buckets of time brewing beer for free, that you won't drink.

 

[Ninegrain]

Yeah good point. I will be drinking it too but. They have 10 tap kings between them, 32L, so I am getting about 10l for my time. Maybe not a huge amount, but with the cost of bulbs etc for their kits and the relatively cheap expense for kegs (they all ready have co2 bottles for aquariums and things) then I see this as a stepping stone to them setting up their own home bars, from which I will benefit in the long term...it's all part of the grand plan! Lol

They are too lazy to brew, I have tried to get them into it, but are not afraid to spend money in the paraphernalia if they feel it's worth it. I do 80% of my drinking at their houses anyway so having to package and transport bottles etc to their houses, then bringing them back, cleaning them and so on...pita... My answer: supply the beer at cost to their bars and I get to drink it when I am there for the price of my time making it

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

No worries. I have had those friends and relatives and tried to get them in and they're too lazy to brew too. I started trying to teach them, then have them supply me for the cost and take half. In the end, I got the the point where I was like - it's my hobby, occasionally you can drink from my taps if you want to come over but rack off and let me enjoy the fruit of my labour - why should you get lots of free beer for being too lazy to continue the hobby yourself.

The other thing is the cost of gas/electricity needs to be factored in - even if you get 10L from it, it might be an expensive 10L, once all costs are factored in.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Have you thought about them just getting a kegging system. One transfer, one clean and the gas is cheaper in the long run (co2 that is) than bulbs.

 

[Ninegrain]

Yep, kegs are the plan. We had a party about a month ago where I took my kegs round so they have an idea about the ease of use and the satisfaction that comes of pouring from them. Similar thing from the tap king but I think that will wear off quick, especially for me, like you suggest.

At this stage in my brewing career, the more batches I can put through my system, the better! More experience and knowledge on the finer workings of my system and all that... Unfortunately I am a poor uni student atm so the limiting factor in my brewing has been the funds to buy the ingredients. Rich benefactors, so to speak, will be a short term blessing and if I can get them hooked on my product then - Long term goal: get them to have my beer on tap at their place so I can then drink it without having to fart around with bottles etc. Like I said, I am most often drinking at their houses anyway.

So, with consideration of the above comments on hop combinations I think I will simplify it to just Galaxy and Centennial to just under 30 IBU's and see how that goes. Centennial for citrus, Galaxy for passionfruit. I could use Cascade but I haven't used Centennial yet so want to give it a go and from what I have read it does sound similar, but lower in the grapefruit profile?? I will also remove the biscuit malt, unless anyone thinks it or another crystal would be of significant benefit? I want to get a light coloured beer this go round, so thats a consideration.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I know about the poor uni student thing - I wish AHB was around when I was at uni.

If you are looking at saving costs - there are a few extra things you can get your benefactors to get - they can shell out for bulk grain (in a bulk buy) and hops in bulk - that will cut per litre costs down drastically. You can reuse yeast (especially if you're going down the 'hoppy ale' line - you'll get a few generations from US-05 or BRY97, where yeast character isn't a massive drama and therefore chucking in beer on top of trub or collecting a bottle and re-using isn't as big an issue - though research of course).

Sounds pretty good for a recipe.

I might add that I always found having a 'non-fruity' American hop (whether that be pine, dank (aka weed), woody, earthy descriptor) as an extra dimension to the fruitiness really makes the beer shine. All mine early on were Citra, Galaxy, Nelson Sauvin, Cascade - anything american and fruity. But when I whacked in Chinook to bitter and a little at the end - man alive the difference it made was massive.

I generally find about 10% max worth of spec malts in my grist does it for me. Generally I use a combo of Crystal, Rye, Red Wheat or Cara-something.

 

[Ninegrain]

Yeah bulk grain would be sweet but milling it, or rather, purchasing a mill is an expense that I cant quite reach atm, even though I am aware it will pay for itself over time. Part of the argument I suppose to extract more money from my mates lol. Pay now save later and all that...

I have played around with reusing yeast but my long turnaround time between ferments has left me feeling uneasy about longer term storage of the yeast. I know it can be done but dealing with starters and so on to guarentee viability is something I would rather avoid for the time being. However I will definately reuse the yeasties if I can get the bankrolled brew chain rolling

Hmm yeah Chinook is another hop I am yet to play with and you are right, balancing the fruit is a good idea. Since I no-chill and prefer the simple life of cube-hopping, any idea of what a good amount of it to use with these other two would be, while staying shy of a combined 30 IBU's?

 

[Tahoose]

I posted this in another thread a couple of months ago. I'd brew the same again but maybe half the Nelson Sauvin and maybe dry hop some Citra.

""""
All I'm going to say is, here is what I made, I currently have it on tap, and it's drinking really nicely right now, quite sessionable. It did take a little time for the Nelson Sauvin to fade a little and blend in a bit more.

JW Trad Ale 73.3%
JW Wheat Malt 26.67%

POR 60mins - 10.81 IBU
Amarillo 20mins - 9.83 IBU
Nelson Sauvin 20mins - 14.82 IBU

Brewbright

BRY-97
OG: 1:047
FG : 1:012

ABV 4.5%"

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I cube hop as well.

Get hold of brewmate (brewmate.net) it's free. Tick the no-chill button and you'll find that entering them in at 0 minutes will give you the IBU - it's pretty good for my tastes. As far as ratios go, I use about 1/3 chinook to 2/3 fruit at the last addition and if I bitter, I pretty much exclusively use it (or CTZ or something of the ilk) at the 30 or 60 minute addition in an IPA.

With regard to mills - if you notice on my latest pics on my 2 pot stovetop method thread - I'm still using a food processor and just a BIAB bag. I'm moving to BNE at the end of the year and so I'm glad I didn't purchase a mill, though I will eventually up there. It can be done without the mill, though it does take longer.

Edit: I would add that you will need to tweak according to your and your friends' tastes. So having the software and developing an idea of what you like, records and the numbers involved will help with getting the tweaks right.

 

[Bribie G]

50/50 Wheat and barley malt makes spectacular Aussie Pale ales.