Larger Brew Stopped Bubbling

[Diggles]

Help!!
Have just started a larger brew starting at 22deg, a bit high by what it said on the can (13 to 15 is optimal), all systems ok and the bubbling started. I then had a brain wave and moved the brew to an air conditioned room, cranked the air conditioning to max and went to work for the day. On return I was deligted to see the temperature on the fermentor indicating 14deg...Happy days....not!!

The brew had stopped bubbling, not to worry I thought, I'll checked the seal and give the fermentor a slight squeeze to check that the water level in my ai lock moved and monitored it over a 24 hour period using my hydrometer....it hasn't moved off 1022 for the last 24hours and still no bubbles.
S.G at start was 1050
S.G when moved to air conditioned room 1022

The question is what should I do??

 

[porky4776]

Dont panic, leave it at 14 for another few days and check again . Also, go to the articles section above and check out the new to brewing catagory. There is a article there on airlock not bubbling. While comforting, it is not a definitive sign.

 

[raven19]

You could raise the temperature back up to 18-20, or rack your beer to another fermenter, or give the fermenter a gentle swirl.

Raising the temp may be required in this case.

Maybe also have a search on this forum under 'stalled ferment'

Welcome to the forums.

 

[dpadden]

Help!!
Have just started a larger brew starting at 22deg, a bit high by what it said on the can (13 to 15 is optimal), all systems ok and the bubbling started. I then had a brain wave and moved the brew to an air conditioned room, cranked the air conditioning to max and went to work for the day. On return I was deligted to see the temperature on the fermentor indicating 14deg...Happy days....not!!

The brew had stopped bubbling, not to worry I thought, I'll checked the seal and give the fermentor a slight squeeze to check that the water level in my ai lock moved and monitored it over a 24 hour period using my hydrometer....it hasn't moved off 1022 for the last 24hours and still no bubbles.
S.G at start was 1050
S.G when moved to air conditioned room 1022

The question is what should I do??

Hey there Diggles. need a bit more info mate. Which kit are you using, and what did you add in to the mix (sugar, dextrose, enhancers)? Did you use the kit yeast?

 

[jbumpstead]

Many of the lagers that I have brewed haven't had any airlock activity at all. I suspect it is due to the fact that fermenting at such a low temperature happens at a much slower rate (meaning slower rate of CO2 production), and possible leaks through the seals in my fermeter.

I would say don't panic let it keep going at the lower temperature. After a few days it will be giving off quite a strong sulfer type smell which is characteristic of fermentation at lager temperatures. The sulfer smell combined with a dropping SG (it will happen slowly at lager temps) should set your mind at ease that your wort is still fermenting.

If the SG had already dropped to 1022 by the time you chilled the wort to 14, it sounds as though a vast majority of your fermentation is complete anyway.

Good luck and don't stress.

Bumma.

 

[Diggles]

Hey there Diggles. need a bit more info mate. Which kit are you using, and what did you add in to the mix (sugar, dextrose, enhancers)? Did you use the kit yeast?

Kit is a Cortes Cerveza, mexican style larger. I added 1kg of Deliverance Lifter No1. Yeast was Brew Cellar European Larger Yeast, 15g which came with the kit.

 

[Diggles]

Many of the lagers that I have brewed haven't had any airlock activity at all. I suspect it is due to the fact that fermenting at such a low temperature happens at a much slower rate (meaning slower rate of CO2 production), and possible leaks through the seals in my fermeter.

I would say don't panic let it keep going at the lower temperature. After a few days it will be giving off quite a strong sulfer type smell which is characteristic of fermentation at lager temperatures. The sulfer smell combined with a dropping SG (it will happen slowly at lager temps) should set your mind at ease that your wort is still fermenting.

If the SG had already dropped to 1022 by the time you chilled the wort to 14, it sounds as though a vast majority of your fermentation is complete anyway.

Good luck and don't stress.

Bumma.

Thanks for the advice, the only thing that worries me is that I had only started the brew 24 hours before I moved it. Is it true that a brew has only so much CO2 to give off whether it be over a day or 2 weeks??

 

[Wisey]

The brewcellar Euro Lager Yeast was a really nice yeast in my opinion.

My pilsner which is now gone was clean looking and clean tasting as the day is long.

 

[AntCoop]

I think that yeast in that Morgans Cerveza kit is W34 70

I have had this yeast take up to 3 weeks to ferment out the wort (1040 sg) and it can seem like there is no airlock action because it works slow at colder temps (12 degrees) than ale yeast.

Keep checking your gravity and swirl the fermenter as guys have suggested above with raising the temp.

Cheers Coops :beer:

 

[manticle]

(Diggles @ Sep 1 2009, 10:21 PM)
Help!!
Have just started a larger brew starting at 22deg, a bit high by what it said on the can (13 to 15 is optimal), all systems ok and the bubbling started. I then had a brain wave and moved the brew to an air conditioned room, cranked the air conditioning to max and went to work for the day. On return I was deligted to see the temperature on the fermentor indicating 14deg...Happy days....not!!

The brew had stopped bubbling, not to worry I thought, I'll checked the seal and give the fermentor a slight squeeze to check that the water level in my ai lock moved and monitored it over a 24 hour period using my hydrometer....it hasn't moved off 1022 for the last 24hours and still no bubbles.
S.G at start was 1050
S.G when moved to air conditioned room 1022

The question is what should I do??

My initial post was a little misleading so I've attempted to clarify:


If it's a proper lager yeast it will move slower at lower temps. This is a good thing. 24 hours is nothing. My recent pilsner took one week to drop 5 points and that's at the beginning of primary. It's down from 1055 to 1025 as of yesterday and it's been held around 12 deg for 3 weeks now. Patience. If it's really stuck there are things you can do but neither airlock bubbling and 24 hour stable/stuck gravity mean very much.

Leave in air conditioned room. Monitor patiently. When at 1018, transfer to another fermenter. Monitor the gravity. When it hits a couple of points higher than expected final gravity, bring the temp back up to 18 for 2 days then start to cool again. When gravity is at final (steady over three days and in the ballpark of the expected figure) then bung the whole lot in the fridge for anything over a week. You will thank your patience for it later when you sip a beautiful clean crisp lager.

CO2 is a byproduct of fermentation, produced by the yeast. The brew will produce carbon dioxide as long as the yeast is working. There will be some residual CO2 left following fermentation and any priming/carbonation not done by force (ie kegging) will encourage the yeast to produce some more.

 

[Fourstar]

Hey Diggles, your beer aint 'broken' but by dropping the temp that far through fermentation you are unlikly to improve it. i'll explain below.

Majority of ester producstion occurs in the 1st 1/3 of fermentation, as you are probabaly around 50-60% of the way thru fermentation chilling the beer at this point to ferment out at lager temps is going todo little to improve the flavour profile of your beer (unfortunatly). The most you will get out of it is an reduction in fusel alcohol.

By reducing temperatues towards the end of fermentation will usually do your beer more harm than good. This will usually cause yeast to floc out early and you will be left with fermentation precursors such as acetaldehyde and diacetyl etc.

I'd return to warming your beer slightly, 16-18 deg. let fermentation take its course and leave at ambient temps 20deg~ for 24 hours to help clean up the fermentation profile of your beer.

With temperature/fermentation control, always start low to hold back esters and fish fermentation warm to clean up any pre-cursors and keep the yeast active.

If you MUST start hot (for instance to reduce lag time/reduce fermentation period), pitch as close to your expected fermentation temp as you can and drop to the correct temperature overnight 2-3deg at most.

Cheers!

 

[manticle]

So going by that can I brew a 1060 lager at 12 degrees, raise the temp at 1040 to 18 until finished and still get a nice clean lager?

 

[Diggles]

Hey Diggles, your beer aint 'broken' but by dropping the temp that far through fermentation you are unlikly to improve it. i'll explain below.

Majority of ester producstion occurs in the 1st 1/3 of fermentation, as you are probabaly around 50-60% of the way thru fermentation chilling the beer at this point to ferment out at lager temps is going todo little to improve the flavour profile of your beer (unfortunatly). The most you will get out of it is an reduction in fusel alcohol.

By reducing temperatues towards the end of fermentation will usually do your beer more harm than good. This will usually cause yeast to floc out early and you will be left with fermentation precursors such as acetaldehyde and diacetyl etc.

I'd return to warming your beer slightly, 16-18 deg. let fermentation take its course and leave at ambient temps 20deg~ for 24 hours to help clean up the fermentation profile of your beer.

With temperature/fermentation control, always start low to hold back esters and fish fermentation warm to clean up any pre-cursors and keep the yeast active.

If you MUST start hot (for instance to reduce lag time/reduce fermentation period), pitch as close to your expected fermentation temp as you can and drop to the correct temperature overnight 2-3deg at most.

Cheers!

Thanks for the advice and info, I have raised the temp to 18deg and given the frementor a good shake which seemed to get things moving again, but with a SG of 1020 I think it's not looking good. You mentioned a few names that I didn't know (acetaldehyde and diacetyl), but I guess the message is I don't want these in my brew!!??
It's only been 3 days since I started the beer and I don't think it has long to go, but I do't know what the finish SG should approximately be either! From all the advice given to me so far if the SG wasn't so low I wouldn't be concerned, but it's fermented for such a short time (3 days) and dropped so much and doesn't smell too good either! I feel that I might be wasting my time bottling it!

 

[Diggles]

My initial post was a little misleading so I've attempted to clarify:


If it's a proper lager yeast it will move slower at lower temps. This is a good thing. 24 hours is nothing. My recent pilsner took one week to drop 5 points and that's at the beginning of primary. It's down from 1055 to 1025 as of yesterday and it's been held around 12 deg for 3 weeks now. Patience. If it's really stuck there are things you can do but neither airlock bubbling and 24 hour stable/stuck gravity mean very much.

Leave in air conditioned room. Monitor patiently. When at 1018, transfer to another fermenter. Monitor the gravity. When it hits a couple of points higher than expected final gravity, bring the temp back up to 18 for 2 days then start to cool again. When gravity is at final (steady over three days and in the ballpark of the expected figure) then bung the whole lot in the fridge for anything over a week. You will thank your patience for it later when you sip a beautiful clean crisp lager.

CO2 is a byproduct of fermentation, produced by the yeast. The brew will produce carbon dioxide as long as the yeast is working. There will be some residual CO2 left following fermentation and any priming/carbonation not done by force (ie kegging) will encourage the yeast to produce some more.

Cheers,
Excuse the pun! But what difference will transfering the brew to another fermentor? Should this be done gently or just simply pour from one to the other? May seem seem like a stupid question, but when you're in the dark you need to ask those dume clangers!

 

[buttersd70]

Diggles,
Transfers should be done gently, preferably via the tap through a hose...some put the hose in the second, others go tap to tap.

Transferring will create some turbulence, which will knock some of the saturated co2 out of solution, and will cause a small (small, underlined) uptake of oxygen (you don't need to try to get any oxygen in, just the gentle turbulence of transfer is enough). It will also rouse the (live) yeast back into suspension, whilst leaving all the spent yeast behind....

These thinngs will often kickstart a brew that's stalled.

 

[Diggles]

Thanks mate

 

[The Big Burper]

..................................................a short time (3 days) and dropped so much and doesn't smell too good either! I feel that I might be wasting my time bottling it!

Diggles,

Don't panic! Lagers take time, lots of time. I can have an ale fermented and kegged
and drunk in 3 weeks. (That's including 2 weeks in the fermenter)

Lagers can take 3 weeks just to ferment, then you have the further weeks of cold
conditioning.

Don't worry about the smell, most lager yeasts give off a foul sulphur odour, like a
cabbage fart! It will clear up after a couple of months in the bottle.

cheers

BB

 

[Fourstar]

It's only been 3 days since I started the beer and I don't think it has long to go, but I do't know what the finish SG should approximately be either! From all the advice given to me so far if the SG wasn't so low I wouldn't be concerned, but it's fermented for such a short time (3 days) and dropped so much and doesn't smell too good either! I feel that I might be wasting my time bottling it!

Time usually heals all wounds when it comes to a lager, Fermenting Lagers hot doesn't help their ester profile but a decent time in the bottle to condition should still yield something drinkable. If you follow my noted instructions on the nest lager you make, im sure it will be top notch!

Cheers

 

[manticle]

@fourstar: a few posts up is something I'm curious about (below your last post).

Cheers

 

[Fourstar]

So going by that can I brew a 1060 lager at 12 degrees, raise the temp at 1040 to 18 until finished and still get a nice clean lager?

Cleaner than something started hot and finished cold. (in theory)

With your example, say your expected FG was 1.014, you are around 45% of the way thru fermentation. this would yield a clean-ish lager, but nothing as good as a steady cold femrent which is ramped to knock off the last 5%~ of your SG points.

The effort you put into trying to drop the temp at the stage of the OP'er and the risks you run (a stuck ferment, precursors, early flocculation etc) IMO, its not worth the risks/effort for the results it will yield. (essentially zip!)

I'd write it off as a learning expeirence and focus on doing it right the next time. Better beer is made by a stable ferment with a slow ramp at the end of fermentation over one that have big temperature fluctuations during fermentation for the reasons i listed earlier.

I hope this is clear bud.

Cheers