Lagers - Importance Of Fermentation Temperature

[gussigan]

still new to brewing and have read about how lagers need to be stored at a much lower temperature than ales and so forth. just wanted to know the importance of the temperature, e.g. what effect having it at the normal ale type temps would do to it.

basically, i don't currently have the means to keep my fermenter that low, should i just not bother attempting a lager for the timebeing?

 

[Paleman]

If you cant brew at lager temperatures, using lager yeasts, it probably defeats the purpose trying to get the style you want.

I gather that if you brew at ale temps, using lager yeasts, you will achieve a fruity beer.

Why not use a clean ale yeast, such as US56, and try to brew down as cool as possible. A light ale brewed at around 18 -20 degs, using US56, is very clean and lager like.

 

[gussigan]

yeah, i was just curious. still new to the whole thing, plus i'm at work and bored so thought i'd ask some more questions

 

[Paleman]

yeah, i was just curious. still new to the whole thing, plus i'm at work and bored so thought i'd ask some more questions

Fire away, lots of people around to help. :beer:

 

[T.D.]

I will admit that, on occasion, I have brewed lagers at 19-20deg. Not because I wanted to - usually it was because of a hot summer day or something that boosted the fermentation temp and after the yeast fired it was impossible to get it back down again (I have a small wine fridge that struggles a bit).

Anyway, I've brewed maybe 2 or 3 lagers where this has happened and they have ALL retained lager characteristics. They are probably slightly more "ale-like" than lagers that I have brewed at 12deg but by no means a write off. Its definitely worth shooting for genuine lager temps if you want to get those nice crisp clean lager characteristics though.

If you don't have a fridge you could try immersing the fermenter in a big bucket of water (or the laundry sink etc) and adding ice blocks every 12hrs or so. I have done this before and could hold a constant 15deg without too much trouble. I would say try and get it as cold as possible and just see how it goes. The beers I have done at the higher temps have all been done with Saflager S-23 if that's any help. Apparently this yeast is one of the better ones if higher temps are anticipated.

 

[altstart]

:beer:
Hey gussigan That is good advice from Paleman. It is essential to control the fermenting temp for a Lager. Get a Fridgemate from Mashmaster and an old fridge from any where. A good source is out the back of a white goods retailer eg Harvey Norman Good guys etc old trade ins. Look for one without a freezer on top. Or be very cunning and offer to buy your lady a new fridge for her birthday. .
Cheers Altstart

 

[newguy]

I've found, through a couple of my own screw-ups, that a lager will retain a clean lager character if it starts cold, but finishes warmer. I think I read somewhere that yeast will tend to create esters early in the fermentation, but not later. Don't quote me on that, but I could swear I've seen it somewhere.

 

[blackbock]

I've found, through a couple of my own screw-ups, that a lager will retain a clean lager character if it starts cold, but finishes warmer.

Finishing warmer (~20C) is called a "diacetyl rest" and is standard procedure for allowing yeast to reabsorb "butterscotchy" flavours toward the end of primary lager beer fermentation. Don't rush it though!

 

[wraith]

My opinion only....

gussigan, Paleman is right, If you cant control the temp dont bother with lagers, you wont get a good one at higher temps, there are lots of great ale styles out there for a new brewer to brew until you aquire the means to brew true lagers ie. temp control, as Altstart says fridgemate and an old fridge for instance.
Temp control is important for ales too, you still want to keep a constant 18-20, generally speaking, dependent on yeast strain and style.

Newguy, yes more esters and by products will be produced at the start rather than later on, though a constant temp is ideal till primary is complete if possible, as far as warming later, bringing the fermenter to room temp is a common practice in lager brewing AFTER primary fermentation and before lagering, its called a diacetyl rest, it allows the yeast to wake up a bit and consume any diacetyl that may be present and also ensures primary fermentation is complete.

 

[ArnieW]

Hi gussigan,

There is always the good old 'California lager yeast' that has a preferred temp from memory of 16C. It does a reasonable job of making a lager at higher temps.

cheers, Arnie

 

[wraith]

gussigan, I dont know if you are using liquid or dried, but as a new brewer I assume dried. As has been suggested there are ale yeasts that are less fruity and can be lagerlike but even these yeasts need to be kept to their minimum temp ranges to achieve this (15-16c), in dried safale us56 is a nice clean fermenter, and as arnieW says california lager is good if you are comfortable using liquids.

Wraith

 

[gussigan]

yeah have only used dried yeasts so far.

cool, i'm gonna work on the fridge situation coz i do like a nice lager

 

[wraith]

Im not telling you what to do but I would like to offer my thoughts...

You really should get the fundementals down before you jump to lager brewing, make decent ales first, its still hard to do but not as hard, you still need a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience to make a good one, and most inportantly not as extreme temp control and as time consuming, good for a new brewer.
In my opinion jumping to lagers to start with is brewing suicide, learn about sanitation, different yeast strains, different beer styles, fermentation, ingredients etc first, make good ales first, then turn to lagers.

Wraith

 

[tangent]

pah! lagers are brewed cooler with a rest at the end. no rocket science. if you want to brew lagers, brew lagers! no point in making ales if you want to drink lagers.

 

[wraith]

Without temp control tangent? All I am saying is for him to brew a few ales to get into the swing of things, how good is a lager going to be brewed at room temp by a first time brewer? Im just trying to help a new brewer.

Wraith

 

[tangent]

lagers are brewed cooler

 

[Nickb167]

you could always do an australian draught beer which is pretty much lager ingredients with ale yeast. While you wont get that clean crisp taste, you could get something on par with vb or carlton draught.

Im still new to brewing myself and have realised very quickly that trying to get european quality is currently out of my reach and am delighted with anything that tastes better then the commercial beers we get in australia.

nick

 

[Screwtop]

lager ingredients with ale yeast.

??????????????????????

 

[tangent]

have a look for my recipe "I can't believe it's not lager"
It's basically what everyone's said, pils malt and US56 yeast brewed cool (~16C)
(i think pils malt can be called a lager ingredient screwtop )

 

[fixa]

So what is a good dried lager yeast?
(and if anyone says its the stuff that makes beer i'll go mental)