Lagering vessel options

[kaiserben]

With my mind a bit more at ease, I reckon I'll split my dunkel into 2 x 10L HDPE cubes (that I already own) and lager them for 2 months.

When I get around to doing the Belg Quad I might reserve my one & only stainless fermenter to age it in for at least 6 months.

 

[Blind Dog]

You do need to be aware that HDPE is permeable to oxygen, which is very different to whether it is airtight for our purposes or not. A number of wine producers use it to bulk store and age wine for that reason. However, I don't think it is as simple as saying HDPE is permeable therefore it's bad, more that there is a risk that should be understood if you're going to make the best use of it. Even oxidation is not necessarily bad in the right beer

Personally, I've never had an issue with storing wort, fermenting it and then storing finished beer in HDPE cubes. although the storing would generally only be for weeks, I have lagered or aged beer in a cube a few times for longer waiting for a keg to be free, without apparent ill effect. Back in the UK collapsible polypins were (and presumably are) regularly used for cask ales at a Homebrew level and by some breweries, without (to my knowledge) complaint of oxidation. I'd suspect they are far more permeable to oxygen than HDPE cubes and that the CO2 dissolved in the beer and the active yeast help.

So, based on experience I'd have to say you should be fine lagering in HDPE for a few months, but at some point beyond you might encounter issues.

Or what manticle said

 

[Jack of all biers]

Great rant, Jack of all biers. Very helpful. Cheers!

This little snippet seems obvious now,

but I'd just been turning the tap on full bore from the get go. So from now on that part of my process will change.

No worries. Yeah taking your time goes against the modern life, but is essential with most things brewing!

My suggestion is wait until the tube is at least under 2 inches or so of beer before opening it fully.
The best and simplest rules are;
1. any splashing is very bad,
2. slightly less on the badness scale is large amounts of surface area exposure to air (oxygen) {this can take place if you are letting it run down the side of the vessel too!}
3. lengthy time exposure to air (oxygen). Also bad because of exposure to other nasties.

With my mind a bit more at ease, I reckon I'll split my dunkel into 2 x 10L HDPE cubes (that I already own) and lager them for 2 months.
When I get around to doing the Belg Quad I might reserve my one & only stainless fermenter to age it in for at least 6 months.

Just a query, but what is the ABV of your Dunkel, what yeast did you use and what temp are you planning to lager at? Go for it and compare the one with oak and the one without at the same times of lagering. Let us know your result.

 

[TheWiggman]

Lager in the keg then bottle is different to lagering in the bottle.

Why rack? While the need to rack to a secondary has been way overstated in hb terms in the past, it is widely accepted (and my personal experience bears this out) that extended contact can and often does lead to a myriad of unwelcome flavours including goaty, meaty and soapy.
We're talking months rather than weeks but not that many months. Racking is not gospel but it has its place.

As long as there is a purpose behind it then it makes sense to do it. If it's done because "I've/they've always done it that way" then it's another step to introduce unwanted stuff (namely oxygen or infection) with no potential benefit.
Nothing like a good rant on a Friday arvo.

 

[manticle]

I agree.

 

[kaiserben]

Just a query, but what is the ABV of your Dunkel, what yeast did you use and what temp are you planning to lager at? Go for it and compare the one with oak and the one without at the same times of lagering. Let us know your result.

(not made it yet, ordering ingredients this week)

Aiming for 1.050 OG. Probably going to go with WLP838 (with a 2L starter on a stir plate). Ferment at 11C. 3 day diacetyl rest at 16C. Lager at 2-3C for 6-8 weeks. Then bottle (wondering if I should slowly let it come up to my ambient cupboard temp of 20C, then bottle and let carbonate at 20C for a couple of weeks, before bringing it back down to serving temp???).

 

[Jack of all biers]

(not made it yet, ordering ingredients this week)

Aiming for 1.050 OG. Probably going to go with WLP838 (with a 2L starter on a stir plate). Ferment at 11C. 3 day diacetyl rest at 16C. Lager at 2-3C for 6-8 weeks. Then bottle (wondering if I should slowly let it come up to my ambient cupboard temp of 20C, then bottle and let carbonate at 20C for a couple of weeks, before bringing it back down to serving temp???).

Sounds good. I've not used WLP838, but the White labs blurb and reviews report it to be a good one for the style. Let me know what you think, I may give it a go next winter (winter is lager brewing time for me).

I was recently wondering about letting my lagers come up to room temp before bottling. This came about after I bottled my first lager after a two year break from brewing. I ended up with an under carbonated a brew, but two of the bottles were over carbonated. I initially thought that it was a poor mixture of the dextrose solution with the cold temp having some effect on keeping the sugary solution at the bottom. The first bottle that had any real carbonation was one of the first few I drank and the second one was the very last of the batch (I didn't let anyone else drink this brew as it was essentially almost-flat beer). The first one was a little over carbed, but the second was a gusher and I am convinced that these two bottles suffered from infection. All the other lagers I have done since then were all bottled straight from the fridge (temp 4C) (although more dextrose added at bottling) and I made sure I mixed the solution gently as an added touch. They have all been consistent so far.

So long story short, don't bother about raising the temp of your lager before bottling.... Unless someone with more know-how has a good reason for it....

Give it a minimum of 2 weeks in the bottle at room temp though. I'd recommend a month (or 2 if you can wait that long) before chilling and drinking as there won't be much yeast to carbonate after 8 weeks lagering. It'll be ok, but might just need more time to get through your dextrose.

 

[kaiserben]

So long story short, don't bother about raising the temp of your lager before bottling....

Give it a minimum of 2 weeks in the bottle at room temp though.

This might be a silly question, but when using a priming sugar calculator do I set the temperature as the room temp that it's going to end up carbonating at, or as the highest point reached before then (ie diacetyl rest)?

 

[TheWiggman]

Good question, there's been some contention over it. Highest temp it's reached after fermentation has finished.

 

[Jack of all biers]

This might be a silly question, but when using a priming sugar calculator do I set the temperature as the room temp that it's going to end up carbonating at, or as the highest point reached before then (ie diacetyl rest)?

I agree with Wiggman. As long as you are certain fermentation is complete (ie gravity readings are about right). Whilst some C02 will still be produced at lower temps, it won't affect the end carbonation as long as the fermentation was complete to begin with. My above story about the under carbonated brew all came about because I forgot that detail and calculated priming sugar based on the lager temp.