Lager Recipe Advice

[dave_h]

Im planning on putting down my second all grain tomorrow and wouldnt mind a second opinion on my recipe.



5kg of Pilsner

1kg of Vienna



Mash for 90 mins

30g of Tettnanger for 60mins

30g of Hallertau for 20mins



Ive also got Saaz hops available but I dont want to mix too many hops as im new to their flavours and want to learn what they taste like, so I may even be tempted to go with only one hop.

As for yeast im planning on trying a Wyeast (1^st time) maybe a German or Belgian as I like the Euro lagers.



Any thoughts?

 

[DJR]

Good on you for sticking with it - the 2nd and 3rd are really a tipping point, kinda like smoking i guess

If you aren't already then mash that around 65C to get it dry-ish. Recipe looks fine, do you have a brewing calculator to work out the IBU level from the hops? From my completely guessed calcs it looks about 30IBU, more if the Tett has a decent AA level to it ( > 5%)

I'd personally just use Hallertau and don't use the Tett on the first go, feel free to add some saaz but one hop will be fine.

Yeast wise for a german pils or euro pils you don't want anything Belgian as virtually all the Belgian strains are ale yeasts, you want to go with pretty much any lager yeast, for versatility in batches you could go the Wyeast 2487 Hella Bock (same as WLP833) which is a special strain at the moment, 2042 Danish, 2124 Bohemian (actually W34/70) or many other choices.

Remember to make a big starter when doing lagers - step up your wyeast pack to around 2L or more, you can just mix 200g of malt extract powder with 2L of water, boil for 10-15 minutes, cool in the sink, pour into a bottle with enough capacity (4L water bottles are good), put in your wyeast (you can save some in a specimen jar or other sterile container at that point for later batches) and shake every so often until it finishes, put it in the fridge till the yeast settles, pour off half the "beer" on top which will be a bit fruity from fermenting at room temp and then shake it up and pour it in.

If you need to ferment your lager warm then there is other yeasts that will do an OK job at that temp, or you can ferment with a clean ale yeast.

 

[dave_h]

Thanks for the tips DJR,



I will just go with Hallertau, 25g at 60min and 20g at 20mins (Hallertau Tradition) gives an IBU of 23.1 according to BrewMate. Unfortunately the place I bought the hops from does not have any figures on it so it may be a bit hit and miss, might up the quantity a bit and try and hit IBU of around 28 then if they are stronger it wont be too strong.



Will give a starter a go.

Just set up temp control on my fridge yesterday so I will ferment around 13

 

[Bribie G]

Grain bill looks fine, but with those low AA traditional hops, mate I'd be looking at doubling those quantities. :icon_cheers:

 

[dave_h]

I managed to get hold of the brewshop I bought the hops from and the Halertau AA% are 4.6 so im thinking of:

30g @ 60mins
30g @ 20mins
15g @ 10mins

According to BrewMate the IBU is 26.1

I havent stored the hops as well as I could, they have been in a sealed plastic box in the fridge for around 4 months, they smell ok but not too strong so I may put a couple of extra grams in.

 

[warra48]

Grain bill looks good, you'll have a nice Euro/German style lager, although not a BoPils.
I agree with mashing no higher than 65C.

To my taste, I'd up the 60 minute hop addition to give you about 35IBU. For my taste, 26.1 is too low to balance the malt from the Vienna.
Also, do a 90 minute boil because of the Pils malt.

The last lager I brewed was very similar to what you are planning, and it worked well.

Premium Pilsner (2.5 EBC) Grain 90 %
Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) Grain 10 %
Hallertau NZ [8.10 %] (60 min) Hops 32.3 IBU
Hallertauer Tradition [5.70 %] (10 min) Hops 8.2 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) [Starter 4 litre] Yeast-Lager

OG 1.056 FG 1.014

 

[dave_h]

Ended up doing:



Batch Size (L): 23.0

Total Grain (kg): 6.000

Total Hops (g): 105.00

Original Gravity (OG): 1.057 (P): 14.0

Colour (SRM): 4.0 (EBC): 7.9

Bitterness (IBU): 36.7 (Average)

Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70

Boil Time (Minutes): 90



Grain Bill

----------------

5.000 kg Pilsner (83.33%)

1.000 kg Vienna (16.67%)



Hop Bill

----------------

45.0 g Hallertau Tradition Pellet (4.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (2 g/L)

25.0 g Hallertau Tradition Pellet (4.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (1.1 g/L)

20.0 g Saaz Pellet (3.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)

15.0 g Saaz Pellet (3.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)



Misc Bill

----------------



Single step Infusion at 65C for 90 Minutes.

Fermented at 13C with



I didnt have enough Hallertau so ended up putting in some Saaz as well.



Had a couple of issues. I found it very hard to get the wort out of the bag, I did have the bag doubled up but the only way I could get it out was to twist the hot bag and this took a while.



My first SG reading was quite low, at 1033, Im not sure why it was so low as I think I got most of the wort out of the bag, my rough sparge was only slightly yellow so I think I got most of it out. I ended up putting in about 800g of LDME which ended up with a SG of 1045.



I also didnt drain the starter as I was running out of time.



Had quite a lot of hot break and did not top up the water level in the pot so had a fair bit of wort wasted in the bottom, certainly did not get a cone of debris in the bottom.



Im going to try and put down a AG Ale tomorrow and hope to get my technique better.

Its in the fridge at 14C now (will drop to 13C) and SG at 1044



Questions

How hard is it to get the wort out of the bag?

Any ideas why my efficiency is so low (brew mate puts it at 42%), I did use a food processor to mill the grain and didnt get it as fine as flour but I think only about 20% of the husks were cut in two/three, the rest were finer. Will take a photo next time.

 

[tavas]

Hi mate

Well done on giving AG a go. It's a bit harder than you think but not that hard.

How are you mashing? Do you have an esky or an urn? I use a 40 lt urn. This is what I do, and I know this is not true BIAB.

I heat all of my water to strike in temp in the urn and draw off roughly 15 lts (whatever Beersmith tells me I need depending on my grain bill).
Mash in at 2.5 lt/kg into an esky for 60 mins. I then dunk sparge the bag into the remaining water in the urn for 10-15 mins and stir it quite intensely. Then drain the bag and give it a squeeze with rubber gloves. Put the original mash liquor back into the urn and boil.

It's a little complicated and more in line with 2V than BIAB (it's Brew in a Bag in an Esky), but so far I get consistent 70% efficiency for the last 3 brews. Now that I have most of my brew day in order I may try a full volume mash and see how that works out.

I think with my setup 70% is about where I'll stay and I'm happy with that if I can maintain consistency.

Don't stress about the overall efficiency, aim for consistency and then efficiency will improve.

My first 3 AG brews were all under gravity and I did the same: boosted it with DME.

I stuck with the same recipe for the first 3 or brews just to keep those variables out of the equation.

 

[dave_h]

Thanks Tavas,

Im using a big esky (1st time, and it was much easier than only using my 19l pot).

I did have a similar plan to yours to remove all the grain and put it in my sparge water but the bag was way too heavy to lift as it had all the grain plus around 15L of water in as it was not draining through the cloth. Ive got Voile cloth but i had doubled it up so will try a single thickness the next time.

Im just relieved that I had some LDME extract that saved the day.

Looking at Nick JD's > 20l Stovetop All Grain Aussie Lager, A tutorial thread I think I need to get my grain finer.

Wort tasted very good, sweet and bitter....

Will keep on trying (well at least another 3 times) as im sure its worth all the effort and has got much easier after the 1st time.

Cheers

 

[tavas]

It does get easier. My first AG wasn't even drinkable, but now have some I am proud of.

I put a bracket and pulley above my urn to lift the bag, and I tie off on a cleat so it can drain.

I use a voile bag from Gryphon brewing and it is only a single layer so maybe use a single layer and it may drain better.