Kit & Kilo Suppliers Are Con Artists

[Pollux]

But Katie, marketing is ALWAYS truthful isn't it???

 

[jimbo82]

I wouldn't own a HBS shop for the money Just for the fun of it. And then I would queue up at Centrelink

 

[bradsbrew]

Nothing like starting a big shit fight then sitting back and watching the carnage hey Pumpy :beer:
Cheers Brad

 

[flattop]

I think we need to make the determination between the fairdinkum LHBS guy, the Hydroponic guy and the big guys that market the fake flavor kits.
I find the LHBS guys (i use 2) to be really helpful, they don't sell hydroponics, they keep hops and yeast in the fridge and they are not afraid of discussing methods.
I don't see anything wrong with clone kits IF they are pretty close to the flavor they advertise. If you buy a wheat kit you want it to taste like wheat.
BUT, if you buy a VB kit (pity on you) then with minimal instructions or effort it should taste like the product (average) or in fact it is false advertising.
That said, I guess though that you have to be reasonable and expect that your $100 setup will not EXACTLY match the output of a commercial setup worth millions.

Lets not kick the little guy who buys product to stock shelves to offer us a variety we otherwise may not have, selling a few extra cans of goop a week means he can afford to stock grains and hops and yeast that may sit around waiting a little longer.
Otherwise service stations would only sell soft drinks, condoms, mars bars and dodgy CD's because they make stuff all profit from fuel.

 

[staggalee]

Nothing like starting a big shit fight then sitting back and watching the carnage hey Pumpy :beer:
Cheers Brad

stagga.

 

[fergi]

really this always annoys the shit out of me, AG/ V KnK AGAIN, it always turns into a shit fight, and it is always some little wanker who pops his head out of his own butt to make some smart arse comment while hiding behind his computer keyboard, ive said it on here b4 and i will say it again,i,ve had many crappy knk beers, and just as many crappy all grain, if you have never made a descent knk beer then you are probably one of the people sitting home drinking your AG beer, which in all probability is just as crappy as your kits beers that you could never make properly, because you really havent got a clue how to make a descent beer anyway, "SO MANY ARSEHOLES SO FEW BULLETS, this is not directed at all the great AGers on this site who give us kit brewers excellent help.

fergi

 

[jayandcath]

I really think that a lot of people have missed the point. I don't think this thread was saying that all LHBS are shit/useless, but everybody's got a story of getting the completely wrong or misleading information. I came across this site and have learned a great deal in the last six months, and not all LHBS are shockers, but some of the stuff they say is just crap. I once got told that All-Grain is "Underground" WTF is that about.
And then you go into a LHBS and ask for grains or liquid yeast, and its right down the back covered in cobwebs and the guy says that no-one wants the stuff, waste of money that was and I won't be buying it again, but there are no ******* signs up to say that its available, so its the consumers fault.

Nice thread Pumpy, should have put the flame suit on earier.

Jay

 

[matti]

I really think that a lot of people have missed the point. I don't think this thread was saying that all LHBS are shit/useless, but everybody's got a story of getting the completely wrong or misleading information. I came across this site and have learned a great deal in the last six months, and not all LHBS are shockers, but some of the stuff they say is just crap. I once got told that All-Grain is "Underground" WTF is that about.
And then you go into a LHBS and ask for grains or liquid yeast, and its right down the back covered in cobwebs and the guy says that no-one wants the stuff, waste of money that was and I won't be buying it again, but there are no ******* signs up to say that its available, so its the consumers fault.

Nice thread Pumpy, should have put the flame suit on earier.

Jay

Hehehe

I think shopkeepers are entitled to opinions even though they might not agree with you.
First time I walked into the homebrew shop in Campelltown SW sydney Nsw that has now closed down.
(Probably didn't make enough money....)

I was met by this German fellow Shop keeper who thought that AG was a waste of time and reckoned he could brew equally pallatable beers just using Liquid malt. I don't doubt him as I reckon I can too. But it is not as fun.
After a few visits getting some basics and ordering Liquid yeasts and hops, I found that he was an descent chap but his knowledge of the larger brewing community in Australia was next to nothing.

Also I found that when I corrected him regarding brewing teqniques and quoted John Palmer and Gregory Noonan he wan't too sure who these guys were.

One thing that really was annoying to me about this particular brewshop keeper was that he wasn't aware of what products was out there.
His main supplier was Brewcraft... say no more.


To the real issue here is the false marketing in conning new brewers to think that if you buy a Can of goo and add a kilo of sugar with the kit yeast you will get a Corona Cerveza or a Toohey New clone if you just follow the instruction....

Point taken Pumpy and Jayandcath

 

[blackbock]

As most of us here would know, making good homebrewed beer is not about having 200 different cans of goo on the shelf, rather it's about having the freshest possible ingredients, quality yeast and good sanitation and fermentation control.

However the masses out there don't care about the process, they want to be told that if they mix Part A with Part B they will have Pure Blonde in their fermenters! Also, they might think that brewing advice printed on a glossy coloured recipe pamphlet is more valid than what some experienced brewer tells them.

 

[staggalee]

really this always annoys the shit out of me, AG/ V KnK AGAIN, it always turns into a shit fight,

fergi

Yes, it does. I`ve always found it`s not a good idea to post what annoys the shit out of me, because without exception, people post more stuff about it to annoy the shit out of me more.
Better to ignore the thread, or take it with a grain of salt {so to speak}
I really don`t think Pumpy was serious with the original post in the thread anyway.

stagga.

 

[Jase71]

really this always annoys the shit out of me, AG/ V KnK AGAIN, it always turns into a shit fight, and it is always some little wanker who pops his head out of his own butt to make some smart arse comment while hiding behind his computer keyboard, ive said it on here b4 and i will say it again,i,ve had many crappy knk beers, and just as many crappy all grain, if you have never made a descent knk beer then you are probably one of the people sitting home drinking your AG beer, which in all probability is just as crappy as your kits beers that you could never make properly, because you really havent got a clue how to make a descent beer anyway, "SO MANY ARSEHOLES SO FEW BULLETS, this is not directed at all the great AGers on this site who give us kit brewers excellent help.

fergi

Hey Fergi, I agree with your coments to a point, but in this instance no-one is actually bagging out K & K'ers, and the original post is more aimed at flogging off kits with the claim of replicating the commercials (which I personally think is a bit of a rich marketing statement myself - so many conditional variations in the homebrewers hands to factor in). If anything, this is quite a positive thread, with many aspiring comments from Kitters and Ag'ers alike - as follows:

I remember being a new kit brewer - those beers were in retrospect fairly bloody average, but they got better as I got experience, and if I had researched and learned the amount of things I have learned since I embarked upon AG brewing - I suspect that I could have made a very nice kit beer indeed (one of these days I am going to try, just to see if its true)

Good quality kits with flavour. The country brewer has kits with real hops in them, which minus the yeast are good

Everyone has to start somewhere - I will never be ashamed of buying a k+k if it means I can develop my skills in the brewing process. Better to waste a kit than a grain bill.

I think there are some mighty fine K&K kits about.

and:

:lol: :lol: thats because K+Ks are shit!

Well, OK, you can shoot captaincleanoff if you're feeling trigger happy this weekend. Then we can go over to his place and pluner the estate of all his brewing gear

 

[Jase71]

Pure Blonde in their fermenters!

a grain of salt

Note to self: AG is made from pubic hair & saline.

 

[Offline]

One thing that you would have to take in to account with these clone kit beers, is the wide range of the brewers experience and equipment used to make them.

Maybe one of these clone kits brewed at 29+ degrees does taste like (insert beer name here)?

But if the brewer is happy with the final product then I dont see the problem.
And if it gets the brewer in to the LHBS chatting with the owner it can only improve their brewing and the owners business, can only comment on our LHBS and owner though and he has already posted his views on this thread. onya MHB.

 

[fergi]

and:


Well, OK, you can shoot captaincleanoff if you're feeling trigger happy this weekend. Then we can go over to his place and pluner the estate of all his brewing gear
[/quote]


yes you are correct jase maybe i had a shitty day at work dealing with all the no brainers that come into butcher shops at this time of year and was feeling slightly iritated by the end of the day,but captainjerkoff is the sort of person i was refering to, we dont need comments from dickheads like that,wasnt really having a go at pumpy either just the fallout from his original post.most people are brewers and use this site for that purpose but then there are the snipers who have nothing positive or helpful to say in their posts.

 

[Steve]

I can't believe this thread... you guys that bored....

+1

I read this thread after visting my LHBS this morning. He told me about it. I agree with him and Katie. Stop farking whinging. If you dont like or get the service from your LHBS go somewhere else. In my case and I suspect a lot of other people if it wasnt for your LHBS you would still be paying $40 for a case of melbourne (not that theres anything wrong with a cold tinny of Melbourne). Give em a break eh.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Jase71]

FFS Katie & Steve, this is a forum. Let people voice an opinion however disagreeable it may be to you.

 

[Steve]

FFS Katie & Steve, this is a forum. Let people voice an opinion however disagreeable it may be to you.

Couldnt agree more hence the reason for voicing mine.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Jase71]

LOL, can't argue with that statement

Have a great weekend mate.

 

[Swinging Beef]

If I owned a store I would DEFINITELY be running a once a month BIAB demo so that people can see how easy it is. Jeez I wished I owned a HBS...

Pat up at Springwood and St MArys does that.
Top bloke.. loves the art, loves the beer.
My only regret about moving out of the blue mountains

 

[warra48]

Oooohhh yeah, Pumpy, you've done it again. Started a thread with lots of strong reactions!

Don't blame the HB shops, they're trying to make a buck, and shift stock, even though some of them are not quite up to speed on the technical issues of brewing.

If the public is gullible enough to think they can spend the equivalent money which would buy a 12 year old clapped out Commodore, and expect to drive away in a brand new BMW 7 series, and they enjoy the experience, who are we to argue?

Same with homebrew.

If you want to drink quality homebrewed beer, you need to spend a few dollars, learn some theory and basic skills, and go from there. Most likely you need to invest in AG brew gear and brew that way.

I've got a golfing mate who brews K&K. I've often told him how he could take some simple steps to make it better, but he just doesn't want to know. He likes picking up $7 or $8 cans at the supermarket and taking no more than about 30 minutes to get a brew down. He's happy with that, although he has started to complain about some odd flavours recently, no doubt due to the rising summer temperatures leading to hot fermentations. I told him to control his fermentation temperatures, and I think he's OK with that now.

I've given him a number of my AG brews, and he didn't enjoy them, as he doesn't like beers which "put hairs on your chest". Obviously the flavours of malt and hops are to much for him. He has a happy hour with 5 or 6 other fellow in his street every day, and I think he plows through at least 6 or 7 stubbies each time. He's happy, and it's cheap for him.

The K&K market supplies him exactly with what he wants, and I've no doubt there are many others like him, and that's exactly the market the K&K suppliers operate in. I wouldn't confuse the AG market with that, it's a different niche, filled by the likes of MHB and Ross.

Edit: Spelling (no, not Tory).