Kettle - Gas To Electric

[Darren]

The following may be needed to be read in two sittings but I suppose thats what a forum is for

BYB

BYB,

Nah, easy read. Have you seen a pistol patch post? :unsure:

cheers

Darren

BTW, I would go the 3kW. You just never know when your circumstances will change and a fast brewday becomes a priority.

cheers

Darren

 

[deckedoutdaz]

I use a 2.4kw and a 3.6kw hand held elements, and they work a treat....the 3.6 needs its own curcuit but this isn't hard to organise, and as justin said....its useful to be able to swap and change between tanks...i use a pid to plug in the 2.4 when needed and this is great with a stirrer whilst keeping certain temps, even step mashings....

daz

 

[Screwtop]

My 2c worth, get two 1.8Kw you can switch one off when up to boil, a few water purifiers use this method, plus no 15A circuit required, run two leads.

Interesting question re the plastic Andrew. No probs with heat using a plastic junction box with my HLT, but I only heat to 98 for fly sparge and cleaning.

Screwy

Edit: Splng

 

[justsomeguy]

The following may be needed to be read in two sittings but I suppose thats what a forum is for

Nup will go the socket getting it welded is'nt a problem. Went down to the local Laurance & Hansen today, a 1.8kw/200mm was $65 and the 2.4kw/255mm was $75. Both were 1 1/4" BSP thread. There were a few different types of finish, the type I am looking at are corrosion resistant. The quantity I will want to boil could be up to 45 ltrs but mostly around the 30ltr mark. This leaves me with the next problem do I go the 2.4 & the 1.8 or could I get away with the 2.4. Just to mention there is available a 3kw which on its own I think would be an overkill. I may just get two sockets welded in and use one with the 2.4kw to start with. I do have a 2.4kw emmersion heater but it may not be long enough for the keg.What do you use to cover the exposed wires on the back of the elememt? The keg would get pretty bloody hot so what have you used to cover the back of the element with. Plastic may melt :unsure:

BYB

Ok, I use a 1.8kW and a 2.4kW element. Both are used to get to temp then the 2.4k is turned off. I can maintain a 30 litre boil with just the 1.8k element with a little insulation around the kettle. Never tried boiling 45 litres in my kettle but I reckon that the 2.4k element would be able to maintain the boil easily. I get a severe boilover if I run both elements at the same time on 30 litres. If you go with a 3k element then you need to be able to drive it. Most household outlets are rated at 240 volts at 10amp. 3k is too much for a single outlet unless its a higher rated circuit. Usually a washing machine outlet would have a higher rating. This is part of the reason that I went with 2.4k as the largest element. I can drive them of two separate standard house circuits. The only other issue I could se with a 3k element is how to reduce the power when you only want to boil a small batch.

Don't worry about the plastic melting. The keg does get hot though I doubt it would be enough to melt the plastic that electrical outlet covers are made from. Try to make sure that the electrical boxes you get are waterproof just in case water, or wort, get splashed around. Also ground leakage detectors are a must. I run one on each element.

Gary

 

[pbrosnan]

The jacketed elements remove the risk of scorching the wort but they are a bit on the expensive side.

Hmmm, I still don't understand how you "scorch" a liquid unless you let the wort reduce to the consistency of treacle. I've used nothing but urns for the last 4 years and had no problem, jacket or no jacket. Anyway if scorching does occur wouldn't the base of a gas fired kettle pose the same risk?

 

[albrews]

Hmmm, I still don't understand how you "scorch" a liquid unless you let the wort reduce to the consistency of treacle. I've used nothing but urns for the last 4 years and had no problem, jacket or no jacket. Anyway if scorching does occur wouldn't the base of a gas fired kettle pose the same risk?

hi, scorching or a burnt flavour can develop if stirring is not used. i have experienced scorching and it would result in points loss in a competition. not a nice resulting flavour. a good stir fixed the problem.

cheers, alan

 

[pbrosnan]

hi, scorching or a burnt flavour can develop if stirring is not used. i have experienced scorching and it would result in points loss in a competition. not a nice resulting flavour. a good stir fixed the problem.

cheers, alan

So normal motion of the boiling wort isn't sufficient, you need to stir the wort while it's boiling?? That sounds a bit odd, do you stand next to the kettle and stir constantly or just occasionally? And if a judge in a competion complains of "burnt" flavours, what would they make of a brew made using roasted malts, the wort was scorched? I'm far from convinced that an opinion about the flavour of a beer would lead to the conclusion that the wort was in anyway burnt or scorched, like I said try and scorch some boiling water or make up a solution of water and honey and try to scorch that. So long as it doesn't reduce you can boil all day, just add water. Scorching; pigs arse

 

[Screwtop]

PB seems there is some confusion between using electric elements in Kettles and MLT's! What say you?

 

[pbrosnan]

PB seems there is some confusion between using electric elements in Kettles and MLT's! What say you?

Agredd ST, it is certainly possible to scorch a mash, leave your porridge unattended on the stove and see what happens (particularly if you're a bear). But the comment I replied to did specify scorching of the wort. And I would still maintain that a judge would be very bold indeed to complain that a flavour had been produced by scorching of the wort. Almost worth a High Court challenge I would have thought.

 

[Tony]

Where is the line where electric becomes useless when boling? Can an element boil 100+ litres of wort? just wondering as i'd cosider going electric if it could be done.

3 phase :beerbang:

a 4.8kW element at 415v will draw 11.5 amps

this is equivilent to 2.8KW at 240v

3 of these, one between 2 phases on a 20 amp circuit would give you 8.4 KW

I recon that would come close and would be safe as houses. no overloaded single phase circuits

cheers

 

[Screwtop]

Agredd ST, it is certainly possible to scorch a mash, leave your porridge unattended on the stove and see what happens (particularly if you're a bear). But the comment I replied to did specify scorching of the wort. And I would still maintain that a judge would be very bold indeed to complain that a flavour had been produced by scorching of the wort. Almost worth a High Court challenge I would have thought.

Sory PB should make myself clear.

ON: I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCORCH WORT USING ANY HEAT SOURCE

OFF

CARAMELISATION, MAYBE!

Mash, well scorching is possible using most direct heat sources, I KNOW.

Here I go drawing the Crabs again

Screwy

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Agredd ST, it is certainly possible to scorch a mash, leave your porridge unattended on the stove and see what happens (particularly if you're a bear). But the comment I replied to did specify scorching of the wort. And I would still maintain that a judge would be very bold indeed to complain that a flavour had been produced by scorching of the wort. Almost worth a High Court challenge I would have thought.

Brewing Bears.Now I would like to see that Scorching wort is not possible unless you have high heat and a mi nute amount of wort.In other words you have removed all H2O and only have sugars left. Usually you can caramalise wort (Scottish Ales) by appyling heat early in the run off but this would be intentional I would think.Burnt mash flavors not scorched wort would be my guess as Patrick suggested.
Gryphon Brewing Edit.. With electric elements it is possible to scorch if there is a presents of starch in the wort or a over functioning heat control.IE above boiling temps produced by the element.

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

Mash, well scorching is possible using most direct heat sources, I KNOW.




As in directly heating a curtain full of grain in a kettle/mashtun thingy?

 

[pbrosnan]

Sory PB should make myself clear.

ON: I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS POSSIBLE TO SCORCH WORT USING ANY HEAT SOURCE

OFF

CARAMELISATION, MAYBE!

Mash, well scorching is possible using most direct heat sources, I KNOW.

Here I go drawing the Crabs again

Screwy

I think we're on the same page ST. I would endorse other comments re: electric heating of kettles having used an urn for some time and seen others fiddle about with gas cylinders. If you are boiling up to 30L I'd say that a 2.4K element is sufficient and there is no maintenance and danger downside that gas fired setups present, above that volume the time taken to reach a boil will become inconvenient.

 

[Screwtop]

Mash, well scorching is possible using most direct heat sources, I KNOW.
As in directly heating a curtain full of grain in a kettle/mashtun thingy?

curtain full of grain

OH TERSE VERY TERSE

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

OH TERSE VERY TERSE

Terse but really funny. :lol:

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Ok, I use a 1.8kW and a 2.4kW element. Both are used to get to temp then the 2.4k is turned off. I can maintain a 30 litre boil with just the 1.8k element with a little insulation around the kettle. Never tried boiling 45 litres in my kettle but I reckon that the 2.4k element would be able to maintain the boil easily. I get a severe boilover if I run both elements at the same time on 30 litres. If you go with a 3k element then you need to be able to drive it. Most household outlets are rated at 240 volts at 10amp. 3k is too much for a single outlet unless its a higher rated circuit. Usually a washing machine outlet would have a higher rating. This is part of the reason that I went with 2.4k as the largest element. I can drive them of two separate standard house circuits. The only other issue I could se with a 3k element is how to reduce the power when you only want to boil a small batch.

Don't worry about the plastic melting. The keg does get hot though I doubt it would be enough to melt the plastic that electrical outlet covers are made from. Try to make sure that the electrical boxes you get are waterproof just in case water, or wort, get splashed around. Also ground leakage detectors are a must. I run one on each element.

Gary

Do any forum users run a simmerstat to control the element output. This idea has been thrown at me. I have a 15 amp outlet that I could dedicate to an element of say, 3000watt. If the simmerstat idea worked I most probably would only have to run it at 2/3rd speed once the boil was reached. Any opinions? :unsure:

BYB

 

[peter.b]

Hi guys, theres been a bit of debate about this issue. I am a sparky and brewer. I also have a largeish boiler. 80L. For 50L you would want 3600w with 2400w to be adjustable off a stove style simmerstsat (control knob). Another thing that should be considered is the heat density of the element/s in question. A jug element is usually about 2200w, but has a high heat density for the actual size of the element. The problem with that is it will possibly scorch you wort, and also after a period of time, a coating will build up on the element, and it will not be able to dissapate the heat causing the element to blow. They can be cleaned generally with an acid based product, but why cause yourself the trouble in the first place. Have a look for specialist heating element companies that supply exactly what you will need. Not cheap but the range is quite extensive and you wont be re-doing it again in 12months time.

 

[Screwtop]

Do any forum users run a simmerstat to control the element output. This idea has been thrown at me. I have a 15 amp outlet that I could dedicate to an element of say, 3000watt. If the simmerstat idea worked I most probably would only have to run it at 2/3rd speed once the boil was reached. Any opinions? :unsure:

BYB

Andrew, a long time since theory covering these things. Seem to remember "Simmerstat for heating", "Thermostat for boiling" from the past. Pretty sure a simmerstat works by cycling on/off depending upon the temperature of a bimetallic strip within the switch which heats up during a load cycle when the element is on, the setting of the switch varies the point at which the bimetallic switch turns off, not really related to the temp of what you are heating (watch your ceramic hot plates). Unlike a thermostat which uses a sensor and cycles on/off depending on the temp of what is being heated. The problem with using a simmerstat as far as I can see is that the wort would be going on and off the boil. This would only be a serious issue if a small element was used, a large enough element should reach a vigorous enough boil to last through the short off cycle at high settings. I think this is correct, if there is an AHB'er with appliance repair or electrical repair knowledge they will be able to set my thinking straight.

Screwy

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

B)-->QUOTE(peter.b @ Aug 20 2007, 09:36 PM) [post="236080"][/post]

The problem with that is it will possibly scorch you wort, and also after a period of time, a coating will build up on the element, and it will not be able to dissapate the heat causing the element to blow. They can be cleaned generally with an acid based product, but why cause yourself the trouble in the first place. [/quote]


MMM I can see your point but with this in mind, cost versus how much I have available to spend I still may opt for the cheaper element option. Cleaning after use on a regular basis with something suitable at most would not be a drama. I have a few different cleaning chemicals available. "Scorching" the wort would be the only concern to me and it would have to be something that I would need to monitor. There are a number of AHB's out there who use the old fashion electric copper boilers, and it would interest me on any issues they may have with "scorching" I mean after all these old things were only ever designed to boil up water for washing clothes. Oh and of course boiling up the odd feed of yabbies and crabs



BYB