Kettle Conundrum

[JonnyAnchovy]

Hey All,

I'm just about ready to step up from mini-stovetop BIAB AG brews to a full-batch, three vessle AG setup - the last bit of equiptment I need is a Kettle - I can't decide between the 40L concealed element crown urn or the 36L beerbelly stockpot with fittings. Would appreciate comments and feedback from people currently using an urn as their kettle.

Urn Pros:
system will be all electric (already have a 22L urn as HLT) - easier inside brewing in the rain!
don't have to buy gas/burner

Urn cons:
slower boil time (?)
scorching (maybe not an issue with the conceled element?)

stockpot pros:
superior build quality
better plumbing
easier cleaning (?)

Stockpot cons:
have to fork out for a burner and gas!


Whattayarekon?

 

[Jakechan]

They both seem a bit small to me. What size batches are you planning?

 

[dj1984]

ohhhh beerbelly kettle for sure ill be getting one soon but i got a burner for a chrissie present :wub:

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Only ever singles- 21Lish into the fermenter.

 

[Jakechan]

Only ever singles- 21Lish into the fermenter.

In that case I'll let someone else answer. I would have thought the 40 litre was just big enough, but maybe the 36 is ok if BB sells it.
Cheers,
Jake

 

[mika]

Pre-boil vol is going to be about 30L, depending on your evap rate. Awful close me thinks in a 36L. Can be done. But just makes a brewday more stressful if you've got to watch it like a hawk. Otherwise I'd be going the beerbelly option. Wayne has done a small stockpot with integrated element, don't know of the cost or whether he'd want to go thru the pain again, but worth asking the question if you're serious.

 

[Goofinder]

Urns work well as a kettle and the tap can be pulled apart easily to give it a good clean. My primary motivator for the urn as kettle was space as I'm in a smaller place. The urn will also be a cheaper option if you need to get a gas bottle, reg, burner etc as well.

You won't be able to buy a stockpot with element for anywhere near what an urn costs. By the time you buy all the bits, put it together and get it certified it's just way too expensive.

One other thing to consider is the capacity of your electrical circuits. If you go with a 15A urn you'll need a 15A circuit for it. Also, if you want to use your HLT and kettle at the same time even if it's a 10A kettle they'll likely need to be on different circuits or you'll trip a breaker. I use my urn as both HLT and kettle so I don't have any problems like this.

 

[chappo1970]

I have the 40lt crown and I am very happy with it. It will prove itself to you. 36lt 50mins to the boil.

 

[jlm]

I've got a 36L BB pot and love it. I brew 20L batches (enough for a keg) and generally collect 30L for a 90min boil. You do have to watch the boil at the start, but once going I leave it unattended while cleaning up. I had a Rambo burner before I got into brewing, so as you said, you'll have to add more $$ into the total cost.

 

[raven19]

Its a win-win decision really, as you can make more beer!

Seriously though, my 2c is for electric all the way. Urn will have thermostat on it also so you can set and forget, or set with a time the night before and have sparge water ready to go when you awake.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Hey All,

I'm just about ready to step up from mini-stovetop BIAB AG brews to a full-batch, three vessle AG setup - the last bit of equiptment I need is a Kettle - I can't decide between the 40L concealed element crown urn or the 36L beerbelly stockpot with fittings. Would appreciate comments and feedback from people currently using an urn as their kettle.

Urn Pros:
system will be all electric (already have a 22L urn as HLT) - easier inside brewing in the rain!
don't have to buy gas/burner

Urn cons:
slower boil time (?)
scorching (maybe not an issue with the conceled element?)

stockpot pros:
superior build quality
better plumbing
easier cleaning (?)

Stockpot cons:
have to fork out for a burner and gas!


Whattayarekon?

I like the idea of the BB kettle for the simple reason (and IMHO) it will be a lot more robust and better wearing than an urn. I had a urn when I first started AGing. Used one for my HLT and it served me well. But they are made of a lot lighter material. I currently have a electric keggle capable of 50ltr boils but have now just recently upgraded to a BB 98ltr kettle. I run two elements 2.4kw & 1.8kw never had a problem with scorching. The only thing that I do is to give the elements a good clean occasionally. I am currently trialing gas burners but if I had my way (finance) I would most likely convert that to electric as well. You never know I may. Just like the convenience of flicking a switch.

In a nutshell whether you go for the BB kettle or design some thing similar its up to you.


BYB

 

[Adamt]

Running costs would be higher for the gas fired, for sure. However, if you intend on brewing for another 3+ years, I'd go the proper kettle; it'll last you for life.

 

[boingk]

Scrounge eBay and be patient. I watched for a week or two and ended up snaring a heavy-duty 80L aluminium stockpot for my BIAB setup - works a dream and will be fine for double batches if and when I decide I want to do them. I reckon you'll find that a larger pot is also advantageous because you can store all your gear in it between brews.

Also, eBay is great if you're a skinflint like me. I got the pot for $80 delivered. I figured a dollar a litre was pretty good

 

[Justin]

I wouldnt buy either, but that's me. If I did my time again I'd either buy aluminum 50 or 60L pots, or spring for stainless pots in the same size. I currently use 50L SS vessels, but would choose pots if I started from scratch again. Mainly because of weight, ease of cleaning, looks and nice lids. Just my opinion of course.

If you choose the pot over the urn dont fret too much on the burner though, you dont have to get a high output burner if you are only going to boil 30L or so. No need for a high pressure regulator, NASA/Italian or anything fancy. If you have a gas bottle and regulator for the BBQ then you are half way there. Get a three ring burner and use you BBQ's regulator. 30L is easy to boil.

Search around the various army surplus stores and chinese importer places and you'll find a 3 ring burner cheap. Just be aware the prices can fluctuate so it can be definitely worth shopping around (calling places for prices will save time and money). I used a 3 ring burner for a long time and it did perfectly fine. They are also quite gas efficient too I think, versus my NASA which is a gas hog.

So anyway, if you think you have room and decide on gas then you can do it quite cheaply if you only do smaller boils. Personally I'd choose a cheaper aluminium stock pot over the BB pot (unless you dont mind dropping the big ones on the pot). With an aluminium pot you could get a bigger pot (40L would be minimum IMO but you could get a 50L if you wanted) and buy a burner and still be well under the price of the urn and way under the price of the Beerbelly. Aluminium is easy to drill too, so installing a ball valve would be a piece of cake.

The beer belly is big $$ but if you have the cash and want it go for it, however all you really need for a nice kettle is a ball valve. If you want electric then the urn might be ok, however I have no experience with them so will leave others to comment. Does the urn have a tap that is going to be functional in a brewery (ie. can you put a hose barb on it to attach hose, otherwise I'd replace the tap with a ball valve). Also, how fragile are they - do you have to be careful washing them out to not get moisture in the electrics?

Ultimately it's your choice and really depends on how much you want to spend. For me, I'd choose an aluminium pot and burner for a lot less.

Cheers, Justin

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

All tied up! votes are at 50-50.


Personally starting to lean towards the crown......

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Running costs would be higher for the gas fired, for sure. However, if you intend on brewing for another 3+ years, I'd go the proper kettle; it'll last you for life.

This is what I was thinking. Solid, thick SS wins on build quality hands-down.....

Scrounge eBay and be patient. I watched for a week or two and ended up snaring a heavy-duty 80L aluminium stockpot for my BIAB setup - works a dream and will be fine for double batches if and when I decide I want to do them. I reckon you'll find that a larger pot is also advantageous because you can store all your gear in it between brews.

Also, eBay is great if you're a skinflint like me. I got the pot for $80 delivered. I figured a dollar a litre was pretty good

Sounds like a very good deal - I certainly do my fair share of e-bay scrounging.

thanks for your help guys.....

 

[Bribie G]

40L urn more than adequate for a normal batch. In fact I go 25 L because my bottling volume is 24 litres per brew (2L PETS)
I've got a Birko 40L exposed element, no problems at all if you use a hopsock and it's quick to boil. I got from mashout temp to a rolling boil in 25 mins yesterday.

The temp dail goes up to 110 which gives a really savage boil, 100 for a hard boil and 95 for a rolling. So it doesn't struggle at all, even though it's the 2400 w model.
Also they last forever, The tea and coffee urn in the kitchen at the hall where the BABBs meetings are held would have to be 1980s .. it has that look about it...

No crusting probs on the element after ten boils so far. As you can see the element is very robustly positioned. You don't have to worry about gas supply, connections, naked flames, just switch on and brew away.



Go the urn yay :beerbang:

 

[MarkBastard]

Bribie do you use that for BIAB? How much was it? Got any more pics?

 

[Yorg]

So is the concealed element in the Crown somehow kept from touching wort, or is it below a kind of false bottom still in contact with the liquid?
If a false bottom, then fine for water, but not great for cleaning or possible build up of scorchable stuff I imagine.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

So is the concealed element in the Crown somehow kept from touching wort, or is it below a kind of false bottom still in contact with the liquid?
If a false bottom, then fine for water, but not great for cleaning or possible build up of scorchable stuff I imagine.

I've actually wondered about this myself - I had always assumed that no liquid came in contact with the element - anyone got a definitive answer on this?

while I think of it, 10 internets to anyone willing to post a piccy of their urn modified to be a kettle- I'm assuming most people replace the tap with a ball valve with a pickup tube?

-Jon