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Kegs In The Garage - Taps In The Kitchen

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glenwal

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So I have finally convinced swmbo that the move to kegging is a good idea (leaving empty bottles everywhere worked wonders :p ), and my plan is to have the font/taps mounted in the kitchen, and the kegs in a chest freezer in the garage (directly underneath).

I've just about got all the bits and pieces together for it now, but am stuck as to what line size to go for.

According to the balancing spreadsheet, i'm going to need 8mm ID (5/16") lines, because the taps will be 3.5m above the center of the kegs, and using a smaller line results in a shorter line than the physical length required (ie. 6mm ID line i'd need 2.23m for a 3.5m run not going to work)

I'm assuming i'll have no problems getting 8mm line to stay on the disconnect on the keg (will need clamps obviously), but i'm pretty sure it won't work for the font. I have a 3 tap flooded font which currently has 7mm OD lines on it, so there is no way I'm going to be able to fit the new lines into it (the 8mm ID Flexmaster II lines i'm looking at have a 12mm OD).

The only way I can think to get this to physically work is to have smaller lines in the font, and the join them to the larger lines with a reducer, but I would assume this will cause foaming issues (especially being so close to the tap end of the line).

Anyone have any ideas? Or am i missing something really basic?
 

Pennywise

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Can you get your hands on larger barbs for the taps. I know my kegerator came with big f**k off sized elbows. I'd offer them to you for nix but they were cheap crap and have some of the plating comming off. So it'll more than likely give some sort of off flavours.
 

Maheel

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out of interest are you going to flood the font and chill the lines ?
 

glenwal

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Hmmm, hadn't even though of the barbs for the taps yet. Might need to pull it apart tonight as see whats in there.

I was more thinking of getting the lines in through the base of the font. Being flooded it needs to be sealed, and the way the lines get in through the bottom basically has the lines through a rubber grommit that is compressed between two plates by a nut, thus creating a seal around the lines (at work, so cant post up a photo right now)
 

glenwal

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Give Andale a call
http://www.andale.com.au/beer-dispensing-e...-python-joiners

They might even have a 4mm to 8mm joiner or whatever you need.
Yeah, thats what I was thinking i'd need. You don't think it would cause issues changing the line size so close to the taps?

out of interest are you going to flood the font and chill the lines ?
Going to have chilled (ie fridge temp) water running through it - no freezer for glycol unfortunately.
 

stux

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Yeah, thats what I was thinking i'd need. You don't think it would cause issues changing the line size so close to the taps?


Going to have chilled (ie fridge temp) water running through it - no freezer for glycol unfortunately.
Restricting shouldn't be a problem.... Basically how flow controllers work ;)
 

NickB

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I used to have a similar setup - bar/font on the deck, keg freezer downstairs, with approx 4.5m beer line to each tap.

Biggest issue I had was having to run the carbonation higher than I would have liked as you're not only trying to push the beer to the taps, but battling gravity as well. Keep this in mind.

I would also consult Andale or a similar supplier of the commercial stuff to see what they can suggest. Won't be cheap though ;)

Looking forward to seeing the pics when it's done!

Cheers
 

glenwal

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Restricting shouldn't be a problem.... Basically how flow controllers work ;)
Haha, its so obvious when you say it like that, thanks heaps :beer:
 

donburke

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So I have finally convinced swmbo that the move to kegging is a good idea (leaving empty bottles everywhere worked wonders :p ), and my plan is to have the font/taps mounted in the kitchen, and the kegs in a chest freezer in the garage (directly underneath).

I've just about got all the bits and pieces together for it now, but am stuck as to what line size to go for.

According to the balancing spreadsheet, i'm going to need 8mm ID (5/16") lines, because the taps will be 3.5m above the center of the kegs, and using a smaller line results in a shorter line than the physical length required (ie. 6mm ID line i'd need 2.23m for a 3.5m run not going to work)

I'm assuming i'll have no problems getting 8mm line to stay on the disconnect on the keg (will need clamps obviously), but i'm pretty sure it won't work for the font. I have a 3 tap flooded font which currently has 7mm OD lines on it, so there is no way I'm going to be able to fit the new lines into it (the 8mm ID Flexmaster II lines i'm looking at have a 12mm OD).

The only way I can think to get this to physically work is to have smaller lines in the font, and the join them to the larger lines with a reducer, but I would assume this will cause foaming issues (especially being so close to the tap end of the line).

Anyone have any ideas? Or am i missing something really basic?

whilst the spreadsheet it a good resource for planning, its based on theory that doesnt always play out in practice

i have the same sort of configuration, a rise of 3 metres over a total line length of 5 metres as i have a couple of turns

i used 5mm ID line and i get a good pour at anything between 60kpa to 80kpa

at over 80kpa i also find it pours too fast, and i'm not talking about overcarbonation, just pouring out too fast

with my kegs sitting at 3 degrees, the 60kpa to 80 kpa gives me carbonation of between 2.3 to 2.6 volumes and everything is balanced well, and thats how i like my beer served

run your glycol lines into the freezer to join your beer lines then to head up towards the font

wrap them in glad wrap and then pass through armaflex insulation, and keep it heading upwards at all times

what temperature do you plan on serving your beer and what level of carbonation do you like ?
 

glenwal

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whilst the spreadsheet it a good resource for planning, its based on theory that doesnt always play out in practice

i have the same sort of configuration, a rise of 3 metres over a total line length of 5 metres as i have a couple of turns

i used 5mm ID line and i get a good pour at anything between 60kpa to 80kpa

at over 80kpa i also find it pours too fast, and i'm not talking about overcarbonation, just pouring out too fast

with my kegs sitting at 3 degrees, the 60kpa to 80 kpa gives me carbonation of between 2.3 to 2.6 volumes and everything is balanced well, and thats how i like my beer served

run your glycol lines into the freezer to join your beer lines then to head up towards the font

wrap them in glad wrap and then pass through armaflex insulation, and keep it heading upwards at all times

what temperature do you plan on serving your beer and what level of carbonation do you like ?
Planning on kegs at about 3-4deg, and about 2.4vols of carbination, so from the sound of it, basically the same as yours.

Very interesting to hear that you have good results with 5mm ID line. I suppose it does make sense though, because the smaller ID line means less beer in the line, and hence less weight that it has to overcome to push the beer upwards.

Also the gladwrap idea is awsome, cheers.
 

angus_grant

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Having not worked on a large-scale system like this, but I quickly made the move to flow-controllers on the tap as I didn't like having 2&1/2 metres of beer line coiled inside my small kegerator.

Is there some reason to not use 5mm line all the way, and then just restrict at the taps? Then you don't need to do all these fancy equations and such, just increase the restriction until you get the pour speed you want. :unsure:
 

donburke

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Having not worked on a large-scale system like this, but I quickly made the move to flow-controllers on the tap as I didn't like having 2&1/2 metres of beer line coiled inside my small kegerator.

Is there some reason to not use 5mm line all the way, and then just restrict at the taps? Then you don't need to do all these fancy equations and such, just increase the restriction until you get the pour speed you want. :unsure:

the issue (according to the theory of the calculator anyway) is that the flow will be insufficient through the narrower line, using restrictors will compound the problem, as gravity is already restricting enough flow
 

stux

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Sounds to me like it should be easy enough to do a test run with 5mm ID line to see if it will work fine. *if* there is a problem try thicker line.
 

glenwal

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Sounds to me like it should be easy enough to do a test run with 5mm ID line to see if it will work fine. *if* there is a problem try thicker line.
Yeah, i think that's what i'll be doing. A few meters of 5mm ID line doesn't cost much, so don't really have anything to loose. Will need to get some anyway for inside the font (needs new lines no matter what way I go) and for gas lines.

Thanks everyone.
 

donburke

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Sounds to me like it should be easy enough to do a test run with 5mm ID line to see if it will work fine. *if* there is a problem try thicker line.

8mm id line carries 2.5 times more volume than that of 5mm id line

so thats 2.5 times more beer sitting in the line thats weighing down that you have to overcome

yes, the 5mm id works well
 

Whiteferret

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Diameter wont effect the pressure in regards to gravity as the pressure at the bottom will be the same no matter how wide it is only how high it is that matters ie.
a tube 1cm in diam and 10m deep will have the same pressure at the bottom as
a tank 10m in diam and 10m deep.
Personally I would go for the larger diameter so there is less flow resitance.
 

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