KegLand Questions and Answers

[S.E]

You have really put me on the spot now and you can see how dirty the underside of my sink is now.

Hopefully you find the photo below will make sense to you. As you can see I use the inline regulator to drop the water pressure from about 150psi mains pressure to the ball lock post above the sink.

Wow, is your mains pressure really 150 psi? I have a similar setup to you but only need a ball valve to control flow and pressure.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I'm interested to know this too. 500ml cans don't really interest me, and I'd personally prefer cans with standard openings. So I'd really only consider getting the canning machine if I knew I could do standard 375ml cans with it. This comment is likely to be unpopular, but I just don't like the "big gulp" openings.

As you can see the canning machine is made so so it suits the cans that we sell:
https://www.kegland.com.au/cannular-compact-canning-machine-bench-top-can-seamer.html
https://www.kegland.com.au/aluminium-disposable-full-aperture-beverage-can.html

With that said if you want to use other cans such as the 375ml cans you can purchase these from a many other can manufacturers. In the past nobody has been able to sell a canning machine at the price that we are starting to sell them so as a result not many people got into domestic/small scale canning. With that said this machine now enables people to get into canning far more economically. So I guess you could say it's a "which comes first, chicken and egg scenario". But now we have the machines I think more people will eventually offer the disposable cans.

These canning machines can be adapted to seal cans of all different sizes but each different size will require a different die. We might eventually sell dies for different brands/sizes of cans but these dies are not difficult to make and I have made a simple die on a lathe with some nylon stock and it took about 30minutes to do.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I was not knocking them and I am very grateful for what they are doing in the market (see the last line of my post) and I'm very interested in canning, hence what I think are relevent questions.
Power supply https://invertech.com.au/power-supply-240vac-input-24-vdc-13-amp.html I have googled and $200 seems to be the going rate, now I'm not suggesting it will cost that much (chinese copy) but it would be nice to know if it comes with one or not, and if not then a guesstimate as to cost.
Oxygen pick-up is a very real concern, we purge our kegs, cap on foam etc and all I asked for was a bit of clarification on whether or not it would be an issue.
I keg my daily brews but bottle my "specials" tripples, quads, imperials etc for long term storage/aging and it's these beers that I would like to can, so oxygen in long term storage may be an issue also the gravity of these beers, often in double digits warrants a smaller can hence the question about alternative dies, I'm happy to pay 50c for cans be they 250ml or 550ml I just want to know if it will be an option http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/705-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=332761684264
I understand KL can't keep multiple sizes and suppliers need to sell by the truck load but that is where a bulk buy mght come in.
At 20c per 550ml can, some bottlers may have switched to canning their daily brew (lets face it bottles are a PITA) I happen to think @ 50c per can they are unlikely to.
If my questions and comment have in any way come across as criticism of KL I unreservedly apologise as it was not my intent.
Cheers G

No worries at all. We are going to sell the power supplies for these canning machines and they will be the same power supply that we will use for some other stuff in the pipeline such as the grain mills that we sell too. You can run the canning machine of a couple of old car batteries if you wanted a cheap option but we will sell the 24v DC, power supply suitable for the job for under $100. We just haven't added this to our website yet.

Low dissolved oxygen rates are the main reason why most customers choose cans in the first place as they are better than bottles when it comes to oxygen ingress. Purging the can or not doesn't seem to make a massive difference when packaging beer into cans. The most important thing to get very low rates of oxygen in the final packaged can is to make sure you are capping on foam. There is a lot of research around this already and you don't need expensive gear to do this. I was at a conference about packaging in America a couple years ago and they were using one of these beer guns:
https://www.kegland.com.au/bottle-filler-beer-gun.html

Once the can has been filled you need to make sure you have a layer of beer foam before the lid goes on. In a commercial canning line this can be done by spraying a high pressure jet of water into the can or it can be done by having a separate gun that has a dip that is designed to dispense foam. For a home brewer or small scale person using a gun like the easiest way to do it is to just half press the trigger and the beer squirts out the side making the beer foam up. If you do this it's possible to get dissolved oxygen rates that are comparable with extremely expensive automated can filling lines. How consistently you can do this will come down to how good you get at using one of these bottle filling guns.

 

[Nullnvoid]

You have really put me on the spot now and you can see how dirty the underside of my sink is now.

Hopefully you find the photo below will make sense to you. As you can see I use the inline regulator to drop the water pressure from about 150psi mains pressure to the ball lock post above the sink.

It's not a particularly neat job and normally I would mount the hosing to the wall but when I put this in the cupboard i had not plans to ever make this public on a forum.

Thanks that's awesome and very helpful.

 

[Kenf]

Back to inline regulators, I received the second one today and this is how I decided to set it up. I preset the regulators outside of the kegerator ( didn’t really think the gauge needed to be permanently attached) but by setting up the way I have done, I can quickly remove the attached disconnect and attach the gauge and recalibrate! I kept the second gas line seperate, it is currently gassing a keg but in winter it will be for my nitro stout!

 

[fdsaasdf]

You have really put me on the spot now and you can see how dirty the underside of my sink is now.

Hopefully you find the photo below will make sense to you. As you can see I use the inline regulator to drop the water pressure from about 150psi mains pressure to the ball lock post above the sink.

It's not a particularly neat job and normally I would mount the hosing to the wall but when I put this in the cupboard i had not plans to ever make this public on a forum.

Thanks very much for sharing that. Out of interest, what is your water carbonator setup inside the fridge? I am looking at setting up something like this, the McCanns units from the US are very expensive and I'd like something self-servicing that is more convenient than rotating kegs.

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

Thanks very much for sharing that. Out of interest, what is your water carbonator setup inside the fridge? I am looking at setting up something like this, the McCanns units from the US are very expensive and I'd like something self-servicing that is more convenient than rotating kegs.

I've seen a big 4 door fridge at a customers house that was able to dispense ice, water and sparkling water. It had an inbuilt carbonator. Can't remember what brand it was. Maybe kegland has one of these

 

[f00b4r]

With the Intertap faucets on here you mentioned a rating for how much they could drop the pressure from the keg, what would your new flow control disconnects be able to drop it by, is it the same or greater (I appreciate there should be less turbulence involved regardless)?

Cough...

 

[Grmblz]

No worries at all. We are going to sell the power supplies for these canning machines and they will be the same power supply that we will use for some other stuff in the pipeline such as the grain mills that we sell too. You can run the canning machine of a couple of old car batteries if you wanted a cheap option but we will sell the 24v DC, power supply suitable for the job for under $100. We just haven't added this to our website yet.

Low dissolved oxygen rates are the main reason why most customers choose cans in the first place as they are better than bottles when it comes to oxygen ingress. Purging the can or not doesn't seem to make a massive difference when packaging beer into cans. The most important thing to get very low rates of oxygen in the final packaged can is to make sure you are capping on foam. There is a lot of research around this already and you don't need expensive gear to do this. I was at a conference about packaging in America a couple years ago and they were using one of these beer guns:
https://www.kegland.com.au/bottle-filler-beer-gun.html

Once the can has been filled you need to make sure you have a layer of beer foam before the lid goes on. In a commercial canning line this can be done by spraying a high pressure jet of water into the can or it can be done by having a separate gun that has a dip that is designed to dispense foam. For a home brewer or small scale person using a gun like the easiest way to do it is to just half press the trigger and the beer squirts out the side making the beer foam up. If you do this it's possible to get dissolved oxygen rates that are comparable with extremely expensive automated can filling lines. How consistently you can do this will come down to how good you get at using one of these bottle filling guns.

Excellent, thanks for that Kee, so not too dissimilar from bottling which takes a bit of practice to get right. Really looking forward to it now.
"We might eventually sell dies for different brands/sizes of cans but these dies are not difficult to make and I have made a simple die on a lathe with some nylon stock and it took about 30minutes to do."
Yes well, not many people have access to a lathe and nylon stock, so please consider stocking dies for smaller cans (standard 375ml)
Thanks again for the responce.
Cheers G

 

[Mat]

Hi Kegland,

Just after some clarification on the last paragraph. Does the O2 Mk4 reg come with the Type 10 stem attached and ready to use? or do we have to swap it out?

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I was not knocking them and I am very grateful for what they are doing in the market (see the last line of my post) and I'm very interested in canning, hence what I think are relevent questions.
Power supply https://invertech.com.au/power-supply-240vac-input-24-vdc-13-amp.html I have googled and $200 seems to be the going rate, now I'm not suggesting it will cost that much (chinese copy) but it would be nice to know if it comes with one or not, and if not then a guesstimate as to cost.
Oxygen pick-up is a very real concern, we purge our kegs, cap on foam etc and all I asked for was a bit of clarification on whether or not it would be an issue.
I keg my daily brews but bottle my "specials" tripples, quads, imperials etc for long term storage/aging and it's these beers that I would like to can, so oxygen in long term storage may be an issue also the gravity of these beers, often in double digits warrants a smaller can hence the question about alternative dies, I'm happy to pay 50c for cans be they 250ml or 550ml I just want to know if it will be an option http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/705-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=332761684264
I understand KL can't keep multiple sizes and suppliers need to sell by the truck load but that is where a bulk buy mght come in.
At 20c per 550ml can, some bottlers may have switched to canning their daily brew (lets face it bottles are a PITA) I happen to think @ 50c per can they are unlikely to.
If my questions and comment have in any way come across as criticism of KL I unreservedly apologise as it was not my intent.
Cheers G

By the way. I just got the pricing for the 24V power supplies. Apparently these arrive in about 2 weeks with the machines:
https://www.kegland.com.au/24v-dc-2...60hz-with-anderson-plug-high-amp-current.html

As you can see these are $69.95 and with 20amp output and they will power our new MaltZilla grain mill when that comes out as well as the Cannular canning machine.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Back to inline regulators, I received the second one today and this is how I decided to set it up. I preset the regulators outside of the kegerator ( didn’t really think the gauge needed to be permanently attached) but by setting up the way I have done, I can quickly remove the attached disconnect and attach the gauge and recalibrate! I kept the second gas line seperate, it is currently gassing a keg but in winter it will be for my nitro stout!

Nice work. this is a really good use of these regulators. They are really cheap and work well. I am surprised we don't sell more of them.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I've seen a big 4 door fridge at a customers house that was able to dispense ice, water and sparkling water. It had an inbuilt carbonator. Can't remember what brand it was. Maybe kegland has one of these

We dont have a 4 door unit but this new 3 door unit is larger than the older 3 door grand deluxe 3. As you can see it can hold up to 20 corny kegs.
https://www.kegland.com.au/grand-deluxe-3-20-keg-model.html

Is this similar to what you are looking for?

If you are talking about the carbonation we have been working on a simple carbonation kit that you install into your fridge so it uses the cooling power of your fridge to operate. All you need to do is run water at about 80-150psi into the fridge and gas into your fridge at 30-60psi. So you need to drill a couple small fridges in your fridge. This carbonation kit will probably end up costing about $100 or less. It's really quite a simple device but it works really well. It probably wont be released until the end of the year. We are actually looking to use one of the lid components from the FermZilla as the lid for this carbonation kit:

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

We dont have a 4 door unit but this new 3 door unit is larger than the older 3 door grand deluxe 3. As you can see it can hold up to 20 corny kegs.
https://www.kegland.com.au/grand-deluxe-3-20-keg-model.html

Is this similar to what you are looking for?

If you are talking about the carbonation we have been working on a simple carbonation kit that you install into your fridge so it uses the cooling power of your fridge to operate. All you need to do is run water at about 80-150psi into the fridge and gas into your fridge at 30-60psi. So you need to drill a couple small fridges in your fridge. This carbonation kit will probably end up costing about $100 or less. It's really quite a simple device but it works really well. It probably wont be released until the end of the year. We are actually looking to use one of the lid components from the FermZilla as the lid for this carbonation kit:

I was refering to a fridge like this,
https://www.samsung.com/au/refrigerators/french-door-srf679swls/

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Hi Kegland,

Just after some clarification on the last paragraph. Does the O2 Mk4 reg come with the Type 10 stem attached and ready to use? or do we have to swap it out?


View attachment 114980

Yes that is correct. In the past we sold the nut and spigot but some customers found it difficult to change the nut and spigot over so we though it would be a better idea to just stock the complete Type 10 regulators already made up. So if you get this product here:
https://www.kegland.com.au/mk4-dual-gauge-multi-gas-regulator-type-10.html

This will connect with your Oxygen refillable cylinder directly with no modifications necessary.

 

[dozerz]

when is the release date for the maltzilla?

 

[Kenf]

Nice work. this is a really good use of these regulators. They are really cheap and work well. I am surprised we don't sell more of them.

My only other mod might be to replace the T piece with a manifold which would allow me to run 3 kegs on the one gas cylinder two using the regulators for the kegs on tap and a third line for carbonation.
But in all honesty I’m happy with what I have now and with winter approaching I think my next purchase will be some nitro!
Cheers guys!

 

[KegLand-com-au]

when is the release date for the maltzilla?

We have the first shipment of these arriving end of Feb.

 

[sixfignig]

Keen for product demonstration video showing the new canning machine.

 

[PaleRider]

Keen for product demonstration video showing the new canning machine.

Absolutely...