Keggle heat shroud / shield - getting more out of LPG

[DJ_L3ThAL]

After much deliberation and time wasted with my small 3-ring burner slow ramp times and using manticle's large 4-ring and seeing the other side with the ability to not spend 60% of a brew day just waiting for the heat, the efficient greeny in me decided I'd give the heat shroud idea a go to see if I can get my 3-ring working at "normal" times to heat up, but even if I do upgrade my burner or regulator, still get maximum bang for buck out of my LPG. The original idea was from this thread http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/kettle-shroud-heat-retention-343355/

So I have completed the shroud including a shield to protect my ball valve as per the photos. I'm going to brew this weekend so will see if my average 7 hour brew day is brought in considerably shorter!!

Will post back the results :beer:

 

[The Judge]

Do you use a lid on the boil kettle? With a lid, all that precious steam generated above the 70degC mark forms a blanket on the top which really helps to enable your boil, i.e. reduces total time to boil. Regardless, let us know how it goes.

 

[Kiwifirst]

Do you use a lid on the boil kettle? With a lid, all that precious steam generated above the 70degC mark forms a blanket on the top which really helps to enable your boil, i.e. reduces total time to boil. Regardless, let us know how it goes.

I thought that was a no no. I was on the belief that anything that was nasty is being boiled away, including Diacytel and if you lid it, it reforms in condensation and drops back in the beer.

Or do you mean keep the lid on till boiling point then remove?

 

[The Judge]

Yeah, keep the lid on to get it to temperature as quickly as possible,. Once it's at boiling you should be able to drop back from 3 burners with lid removed. DJL3thal was looking to improve time to get to boil.

 

[mmmyummybeer]

Jyst some of the reasons for boiling wort
Sterilize the wort
Hop utilization
And removing volatile's like DMS. I did a boil with the lid once as a newbie and wouldn't recommend it, beer was crap.
DMS is a cooked corn flavour. Diacetyl is a green apple flavour and more from fermentation issues. As it is one if the pathways in making alcohol. Yeast clean it up after ferment. Also can be a contamination issue. Sorry getting off topic.

 

[mmmyummybeer]

Sorry was going to say that the keggle looks awesome. Great job. Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

 

[Kiwifirst]

Yeah, keep the lid on to get it to temperature as quickly as possible,. Once it's at boiling you should be able to drop back from 3 burners with lid removed. DJL3thal was looking to improve time to get to boil.

I'd like to shorten that time too. I certainly need to insulate the ball valve, already half melted the plastic handle.

Be interesting to see what time savings are made with the insulation.

 

[The Judge]

I'd like to shorten that time too. I certainly need to insulate the ball valve, already half melted the plastic handle.

Be interesting to see what time savings are made with the insulation.

I tend to start my boil at the same time as I sparge. I batch sparge, so when the first batch is transferred to the boil kettle, I start the burner, and by the time the next batch comes in to the kettle the first lot is already close to boil, and so forth until the last batch comes in. Haven't had any problems with duration.

 

[mje1980]

Hmmm awesome. At work we have a couple of furnaces, so I'm sure if I look hard enough I could find some kind of material I could wrap around my gas fired keggle that wouldn't burn. Furnaces are rated for 1100c so a paltry 100 wouldn't hurt.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Jyst some of the reasons for boiling wort
Sterilize the wort
Hop utilization
And removing volatile's like DMS. I did a boil with the lid once as a newbie and wouldn't recommend it, beer was crap.
DMS is a cooked corn flavour. Diacetyl is a green apple flavour and more from fermentation issues. As it is one if the pathways in making alcohol. Yeast clean it up after ferment. Also can be a contamination issue. Sorry getting off topic.

Aceteldahyde (spelling?) is the green apple as far as I know. Diacetyl is buttery.

DMS is in fact what you want to boil off, I have done with the lid on up to the boil, but given there is a bit of steam/vapour given off at the higher end of the ramp I always wondered if it is best to let this go out also, so I don't use the lid now. Hoping this shroud does the trick to allow quicker ramp times and a stronger boil (especially if I go for a 40-45L boil when I split a 15L cube each with a friend).

Hmmm awesome. At work we have a couple of furnaces, so I'm sure if I look hard enough I could find some kind of material I could wrap around my gas fired keggle that wouldn't burn. Furnaces are rated for 1100c so a paltry 100 wouldn't hurt.

I used Aluminium roof flashing from bunnings (forget whether I got 0.3mm or 0.7mm thickness, probably 0.3mm cos I like cheap). But free stuff is even better!!!

 

[r055c0]

I love the idea but my understanding is there needs to be an opening at the top for the gas to escape, otherwise you create a "blanket" of gas which can insulate your kettle from the heat, anyone know more about that idea?

BTW by gas I mean the hot air / burnt LNG fumes etc, not unburned gas from your bottle

Edit: Forgot to ask, how much was the flashing?

 

[Whiteferret]

Yep you need to have it open at the top otherwise the hot gases will just billow out around the bottom of the shroud anyway. Try bending every second tab up to let them out.

 

[mmmyummybeer]

Aceteldahyde (spelling?) is the green apple as far as I know. Diacetyl is buttery.

DMS is in fact what you want to boil off, I have done with the lid on up to the boil, but given there is a bit of steam/vapour given off at the higher end of the ramp I always wondered if it is best to let this go out also, so I don't use the lid now. Hoping this shroud does the trick to allow quicker ramp times and a stronger boil (especially if I go for a 40-45L boil when I split a 15L cube each with a friend).


I used Aluminium roof flashing from bunnings (forget whether I got 0.3mm or 0.7mm thickness, probably 0.3mm cos I like cheap). But free stuff is even better!!!

Opps sorry I'm obviously having brain dead moment, Apple season at the moment, think I've got acetaldehyde on the brain. Anyway thanks for the pick up, don't want to confuse anyone.

 

[Kiwifirst]

I used Aluminium roof flashing from bunnings (forget whether I got 0.3mm or 0.7mm thickness, probably 0.3mm cos I like cheap). But free stuff is even better!!!

Whoa! Is that like 100mm wide, aluminium looking on one side and white on the other? In a big huge roll? The builder left a roll of it here years ago, it has been sitting under my work bench doing nothing. If that is flashing, then I am in luck.

 

[Kiwifirst]

No wait, mine is more like a paper. It isn't very thick at all.

 

[leahy268]

This is definitely one of those things that I want to do with mine. Haven't got around to it yet though. From what I understand though you definitely need to open it up at the top though. From the read it slows down the flow of hot air and allows a layer of cooler air to stay against the pot. The rocket stove concept attemts to keep the same cross sectional area from the entry to the burner right through to the exit from around the pot.

According to the research around the rocket stove (linked to earlier) this is optimum for heating and efficiency.

Warwick

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I opened the top off tonight and brewed. Has cut at least 1 hour maybe 2 off of my brew day so big difference in ramp times. Did not have as big as an impact on strength of boil still needed both outer rings to keep a reasonable boil. Its enough for me to not worry about a new burner for time being, maybe still need an adjustable reg though for better boil control. Sorry going to bed will answer others comments later this weekend!

 

[MartinOC]

HeHe, 'sounds like you had a good brew-day/night

I first saw this principle from an engineering/brewer mate who cut the outer shroud off an old 18-gallon (80litre) CUB keg & used the innards as a boiler. There was a HUGE difference in mash/boil efficiency & hence energy-reduction in his whole brewery (as long as he took the shroud off before chilling).

It works.

 

[maxim0200]

Brilliant idea, will have to try it for the next brew.
Thanks

 

[jaypes]

Mate get youself an adjustable reg from auscrown

I always find myself having to wind it back down due to over excitement