Kegging Newbie!

[PistolPatch]

How goes it Berazafi!

I'm just going to throw in here that 60psi is going to be too high for all bar one type of keg. There's 3 types I'm aware of, Aussie Cornies, US Cornies and the new squat 23 litre Brew Bratts. I can't remember which corny has the highest pressure rating but 60 psi is approaching the recommended max for the highest rating one. 50 psi is OK for both types of cornies though I'd probably stay with 30psi as an all round recommendation for all kegs. Less chance of over-carbonation or getting a fright - lol!

Cheers
Pat

EDIT: Was just refreshing my memory and there's one Cornie that has a thinner wall though can't remember whether it is the Ausie or US one. The Brew Bratt has the thick wall but no nylon supporting base. So, the Brew Bratt will pop out to a convex shape, definitely at 60 psi, but it won't explode at least. Not sure what the weaker of the two cornies does at 60psi but I do know that 60 psi is the maximum rating of the better of the two cornies so 60 psi I still find a little scary!

 

[Bobby]

there is no magic number, just follow the basics as outlined by pat and others and see how it works on your system - adjust accordingly.
i dont ever have my gas on (i only turn it on to force carbonate and it turn it back when the pressure is low - i top it up to around 7) i just use the pressure in the head space to pour works for me...

 

[als_world]

If you want to make life easy use the outlet post (ie black liquid disconnect) to carbonate instead of the normal inlet post (ie grey gas disconnect) means that you don't have to invert the keg or even tip on it's side. I just rock back + fwd by about 10cm each way using "The Ross Method" and it works fine.

PP, the max pressure on the standard US cornie is 130PSI (which is also where the relief valve operates) so 60PSI should be fine, although you would have to watch for overcarbonation which could happen quickly at this pressure.

Cheers,

Alan.

 

[PistolPatch]

Al, what you say makes sense as I know that half the max pressure rating is the 'operating,' maximum. I probably got mixed up on what the keg guy told me the other day - he was throwing so many figures at me!

60 psi will definitely deform a brew bratt though so I was trying to write something that would suit all kegs. I also go by a rule of halves with anything to do with safety so I'd hate to see people pushing their regulator more than half way.

I'm pretty sure that my post above will give a great result without pushing any safety limits.

Re your suggestion of attaching the gas inlet to the liquid disconnect. Once again, this depends on the keg. On some kegs, it is almost impossible to get the gas connect off the liquid post! I tried this once after reading it in the manual that actually came with the keg! I took the keg with attached connect back to the HBS. They said, 'Whoops!' and we had to pry the connect off with a screwdriver! LOL!

So, I still reckon, lie the keg down and rock. Also enables checking for leaks!

 

[shindiger]

Thanks PistolPatch that was excactly what i was looking for.

I may haven given the wrong impression about the LHBS owner, he was just giving me his personal opinion on the way he likes to brew. Ive met him socially and he makes a great beer. And i got a good deal on my setup.

As for my set up... i have 2 corny kegs, and all the lines, connects etc to go with it, reg, snaplock tap. Also, left over from my bottling days are 3 fermenter tubs.

After rinsing, sanitising and rinsing again, i kegged straight from the fermenter with a food grade hose, small amount of gas added, then into the fridge for cold carbonation at about 1 - 2dec.

After about 12 - 18 hours later connected gas and charged the keg to 120kpa. has been like this for about 48hours.

I'm paranoid about two things, no make that 3 things; over carbonation, undercarbonation and loosing all my gas if i continue with the slow method. I do however, want to try both methods just for my own satisfaction. But having said that, if taste is not affected with the different carbonation methods then forced carbonation seems the way to go.

I have mentioned before about the impact on ageing of the keg. In bottles the longer the beer sits there the better it seems to get ( thats what ive found anyway) is it the same with kegs. I eventially want to get a rotation system happening. any opinions on this would be welcomed.

So, there it is.
My life in kegging so far.

Happy Drinkin!

 

[poppa joe]

Boy oh Boy..I would hate to be the Taxman asking PP to explain
WHAT is this expenditure for....
cheers
PJ

 

[als_world]

PP, I was suggesting using the liquid disconnect on the outlet post, not trying to force the gas disconnect onto the outlet post, which as you said is one of those "I'll never make that mistake again" moments.

This can be done by making up a special gassing tube, or if you use MFL disconnects (as opposed to barbed), it's a 10 second job to swap them over.

Cheers,

Alan.

 

[PistolPatch]

Poppa, I'm a tradesmen experimenting with cutting edge techniques! All the tubes etc., I buy are just miniature experiments in what is soon to become a revolutionary way of fixing fascia and gutter!

Al - Just saw your post. I knew there was something funny about that disconnect stuff! I've probably missed something really obvious here but to do what you advise, I'm pretty sure involves having to set up a T piece from your gas bottle with both a liquid and a gas disconnect. I used to have this and found it a pain in the how's your father!. I'm trying to keep things simple and correct as possible for Shindiger so let me know if I've stuffed up. So far, I think my advice is OK - hope so! Know what you mean about those, 'I'll never make that mistake again moments" - lol!

Shindiger - glad my post helped. Makes leaving my tax stuff worthwhile! You said...

I'm paranoid about two things, no make that 3 things; over carbonation, undercarbonation and loosing all my gas if i continue with the slow method. I do however, want to try both methods just for my own satisfaction. But having said that, if taste is not affected with the different carbonation methods then forced carbonation seems the way to go.

There's are 3 ways to go here. One is to naturally carbonate in the keg by adding some sort of sugar/LME to the keg, closing the lid and waiting. That is natural carbonation. You may like to give it a go later on when you have enough kegs just to see if there is any difference. For now, forget that!

The other options are the two methods of forced carbonation. One is the slow method and one is the fast. The end result in beer flavour is the same.

Like Ross, I think you are damn right being paranoid about the gas loss. For a start CO2 can kill you if you're in a confined space - faster than people reckon. Secondly, you can lose a whole gas bottle overnight.

Like Bobby, I never have my gas on unless force carbonating or, when dispensing, the beer starts to pull slow. Simple is truly best.

So, give my method above (which is a summary of many other AHB'ers suggestions from many different threads) a go. It's safe, quick and easy.

If you do want to give the slow carbonation process a go, (though as Roger Mellie said he got over-carbonated,) then I would turn your gas bottle on and then off twice a day as I'm paranoid about gas leaks as well. Jye, above, always offers really good advice so he might have some extra tips on how to successfully slow force carbonate.

Also, from your post above, it sounds as though your beer is travelling from the fermenter to the keg pretty quickly. You can drink most styles of all-grain beer within 2 weeks of pitching yeast but unless you are getting really fresh kits, then your beer might taste a bit average with no ageing. Has your beer been tasting OK in the bottle? Hope so! I've had some kit beers brewed by others that are fairly drinkable within 2 weeks but they are a rare find - I think the Gold Coast only stock out of date stuff!

Cheers Shindiger!

PP

 

[PistolPatch]

charged the keg to 120kpa. has been like this for about 48hours.

Missed that bit but am hoping someone else can advise you there.

Re the ageing of the beer. It's the same as ageing with bottles but now you're kegging, you have an added advantage. You can age your beers uncarbonated in 'cubes' (plastic jerry cans.) Work your rotaton system out based on these.

I think we have too many answers for you! One thing I would do Shindinger is post up on your profile where you are from. You'll probably find you have a top notch brewer next door who can show you heaps of things first hand. The other advantage of this is that they're bound to have a fridge a lot fuller than yours!

LOL
PP

 

[als_world]

Al - Just saw your post. I knew there was something funny about that disconnect stuff! I've probably missed something really obvious here but to do what you advise, I'm pretty sure involves having to set up a T piece from your gas bottle with both a liquid and a gas disconnect. I used to have this and found it a pain in the how's your father!. I'm trying to keep things simple and correct as possible for Shindiger so let me know if I've stuffed up. So far, I think my advice is OK - hope so! Know what you mean about those, 'I'll never make that mistake again moments" - lol!

PP, I highly recommend using MFL disconnects instead of barbed if you are building a "modular" gas or liquid system. They only cost a little bit more, but give you complete flexibility in terms of what goes where without having to cut and refit all the time or use T-pieces.

I'm gassing up a new keg this weekend so I'll try and document the process with some photos and video so we can use it as a future ref for anyone that's new to kegging & forced carbonation.

Cheers,

Alan,

Edit: spelling

 

[tangent]

Re the ageing of the beer. It's the same as ageing with bottles but now you're kegging, you have an added advantage. You can age your beers uncarbonated in 'cubes' (plastic jerry cans.)

I've found the difference between CCing in plastic and stainless to be quite dramatic. CCing in plastic still works well in regard to dropping all the crud out, but stainless just seems to make the beer smoother and tastier quicker. So no matter which way you carbonate, 2 weeks wait is worth it.
(i've never had an over carbonated keg the slow way, but have had kegs full of foam the fast way)

 

[Trough Lolly]

PP, I highly recommend using MFL disconnects instead of barbed if you are building a "modular" gas or liquid system. They only cost a little bit more, but give you complete flexibility in terms of what goes where without having to cut and refit all the time or use T-pieces...

Agreed - I use the threaded disconnects to help me move beer around under CO2 pressure rather than syphoning - no chance of oxidation and I keep the beer within the sanitary system. The "jumper lead" with an MFL beer disconnect on each end is great for racking beer out of the conditioning keg and into the serving keg.
And as Tangent suggested, I too get a better, brighter finish to the beer, when it conditions under low pressure CO2 compared to dumping it into a plastic fermenter and sealing the lid. The 5 Gal corny is a real lifesaver when you need to cold condition / lager several beers in the one fridge that would otherwise fit only one plastic fermenter.

Cheers,
TL

 

[Trough Lolly]

...CCing in plastic still works well in regard to dropping all the crud out...

Snip the last inch off the beer out tube in the conditioning keg and your keg crud problems will disappear.
Cheers,
TL

 

[PistolPatch]

I can't believe how many words I wrote and beers I drank last night in order to evade avoid doing my tax! I hope the essays I wrote were of some help Shindiger!

Al, thanks for the MFL heads up. I never realised they existed and a few of those will be quite handy for reasons that you and Trough mentioned as well as some other things. Cheers!

The conditioning in stainless steel has got to be better than the plastic but I'm assuming that Shindiger is, like me, limited to just 2 kegs so hence my suggestion to rack into the $16 plastic cubes as they are an easy way of getting more beer conditioning without the extra expense. (I dream of being able to have more kegs but they are a difficult expense to justify to the ATO!) I suppose the critical question is how much beer will Shindiger and his mates get through each week!

Shindiger, here's a very poor quality pic of my very humble set-up. The fridge will hold 4 cubes (3 in the pic) and 2 Brew Bratt kegs.

Cheers
PP

 

[Trough Lolly]

Good to see a fridge without any of that pesky food stuff in it!!

 

[peas_and_corn]

Now, here's something you need to remember, if you want to carbonate your keg just right...

First, you need to check whether that night is a full moon. If it is, then you are in for luck. However, while you are rocking the keg, you must chant the buddhist phrase 'om madi padme hum' to ward off the bad beer spirits.

If it is not a full moon, then there's a little more preparation needed. First you need to strip down to your underpants and cover yourself with olive oil. Once you have done that, a good beer in the style of your HB needs to be poured on the keg. Once you have done that, a campfire needs to be lit, creating the right atmosphere for the carbonation.

Well, that's what I do every time I carbonate a keg...

 

[shindiger]

I like it!......

I must admit there have been some mornings when i have definately been hit by the bad beer spirits!

 

[oneills]

PistolPatch

it looks like the top self in your fridge is about to have a hernia. Too much of a good thing! :beerbang: