Kegged Beer Pouring Pressure

[JWB]

B) Ok guys...I dont want too many arguements but I must ask the question
What pressure do you pour your beers at from your kegs?
I replaced the beer line a month ago to a longer one...Approx 3 mtrs..since then I have had to reduce the pressure to 20psi and still get half beer and half froth.
My theory was longer line more pressure needed to push the beer around but its doesnt seem to be the case..
Any Ideas... :huh:

Cheers JWB
:chug:

 

[kook]

I carbonate and pour at the same pressure usually. 100KPA (14.5PSI). I've got 5metre lines from the kegs to the taps. Convenient way of doing it, means you only need one regulator to be carbonating and dispensing at the same time.

I must admit though, there are two kegs sitting in the fridge carbonating at 200KPA. This is only because I put two in at the same time though, I wouldnt normally do this. I'll turn the gas down to 100KPA tomorrow night.

Dispensing at 20PSI seems way too high to me. You must have beer shooting out the tap bloody fast. Most people carbonate at 300KPA and dispense at around 30-40KPA from what I've read. This is with short lines from the keg to the taps though.

I'm reasonably new to the whole kegging thing though. The guy I bought my lines/disconnects/kegs off recommended the 100KPA method.

 

[JWB]

:blink: Sorry Kook.
I meant kpa..
I carbonate at 200kpa for a week then take barrel out of fridge and leave for 2 weeks (If I can).stick barrel back in fridge and cool down again
then relieve the pressure down to 20kpa...im still getting half froth half beer. The first half is the froth then it clears. only been happening since I went to a longer line.

Cheers JWB
:chug:

 

[Doc]

I keg at night.
The next morning when the keg is cold I turn on the gas and wind it up to 300kpa and leave it for 48 hours.
For serving I release any head pressure open the tap and gently wind the gas on until it is pouring nicely.
When I'm finished for the night I put about 80 kpa head pressure in to hold the carbonation.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Doc

 

[GMK]

JWB

I dont like the way you gas your kegs...

I think you would be better burping the keg...then leave at room temp for 2 weeks ( can also prime/condition the keg with sugar here)

I have done this before..if you do...releive the pressure regularly.
Some guys in the club swear by this method...ages the beer and saves on CO2 refills.

i burp the keg at 200kpa and rock it for a few minutes.
Leave overnight outside the fridge at 200kpa and then cool in the fridge for 4 hrs.
Drop the presure to 50kpa and that is what i despense with.

I use 4mm line with 2.5m from the keg to the tap.
I still get air bubbles in the line. The first is always a bit frothy - but the second and third is excellent.
I probably overgas my beers and should try 150 kpa.

 

[Nearly]

JWB, how did it turn out for you? Doc, I have a question for you below.

Being new to kegging I have been looking around and there seems to be 4 different methods. I would like to have success with the easiest.

Method1: Run pressure up high then shake/bash/roll/upend keg repeatedly for some time then lower pressure to pouring pressure. (Seems like hard work to me and hard to exactly replicate each time.)

Method2: Bulk prime to add CO2 then wait, then cool and pour with low pressure. (Saves CO2, takes a couple of weeks, must add some sediment but maybe not significant)

Method3: Put cold keg under high pressure for 48hours then lower to puring pressure. (Doc uses this method, eminently reproducable, fairly quickish)

Method4: Decide on carbonation pressure desired (in range say of 9 to 14 lbs) then put cold keg under this pressure for a week. Ensure that your beer line setup looses the corresponding amount of pressure on way to tap.

The Americans seem to use method 4 a fair bit. They call it balancing your keg setup. It apeals to me because it only ever has 1 pressure applied. No fiddling. I am trying it now... will know if it works in 3 or 4 days. If it doesnt work for me I will switch to Docs method.

Any comments guys? Also I would like to ask about pressure loss. I havent looked where yet, but with gas turned off I seem to be loosing pressure on the high pressure side of the regulator. Is that normal?

Doc, when you apply higher pressure for 48 hours do you leave bottle turned on or off?

 

[Doc]

Nearly,

Yes I leave the gas bottle turned on the for the 48 hours.

Beers,
Doc

 

[kook]

Method4: Decide on carbonation pressure desired (in range say of 9 to 14 lbs) then put cold keg under this pressure for a week. Ensure that your beer line setup looses the corresponding amount of pressure on way to tap.

The Americans seem to use method 4 a fair bit. They call it balancing your keg setup. It apeals to me because it only ever has 1 pressure applied. No fiddling. I am trying it now... will know if it works in 3 or 4 days. If it doesnt work for me I will switch to Docs method.

That system works fine, I did it for my first few kegs (100kpa for 5 days, connected via liquid disconnect instead of gas).

I found it took too long to carbonate though, so I now force at 300kpa and pour at around 90. If I do this it only takes a day or two till its ready, instead of around 5.

 

[Nearly]

Yes I leave the gas bottle turned on the for the 48 hours.

Thanks for that Doc. At other times when you leave the bottle off do you have the pressure guage on the bottle side drop? Also have you ever tried the single pressure method?

Thanks for all the tips folks.

 

[Nearly]

That system works fine, I did it for my first few kegs (100kpa for 5 days, connected via liquid disconnect instead of gas).

Thanks Kook. Why do you connect it to the liquid side? Is it to bubble it through? Aren't the connectors a bit different? Forgive my ignorance...

 

[kook]

Thanks Kook. Why do you connect it to the liquid side? Is it to bubble it through? Aren't the connectors a bit different? Forgive my ignorance...

Yep to bubble through.

The connectors are different. I bought a spare liquid disconnect specifically for carbonation though.

 

[Doc]

Gas bottle on.
300kpa for two days.

Gas bottle off.
The gas bottle gauge doesn't drop. This would indicate that either your beer is still absorbing CO2 or you have a leak.

I turn my gas bottle off every night after having a few.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Nearly]

Thanks for the help and advice Doc. I gotta say that I am delighted with how easy the whole kegging thing seems to be. I initially had doubts about all this on and off gas bottle stuff... I thought it sounded like a bit of mucking around.

But once I got hold of it I found its no different than turning a water tap on and off... easy as. I cant wait to confirm to myself that the quality of carbonation that I can achieve is similar to over the bar... if so I will be delighted.

 

[JWB]

Greetings Nearly

I use method 3...burp the keg after filling and put it in the fridge at approx 200kpa for about 5 days..then I usually take it off the gas and leave it in my nice cool brewery until needed..I have 6 kegs so its sometimes 2 months before its cooled and put on line... about once a ever couple of weeks while its sitting there I hook it back up to the gas and re pressurise it again...200kpa. (The gas is absorbed into the beer over time )and we dont want flat beer...do we? :angry:
As for loosing pressure. Get a spray bottle (one you can fill).mix 1 table spoon of dish washing detergent and 2 tablespoons of glycerene and about 2 cups of water...make sure its mixed and spray with a fine spray onto all conections including the lid and all parts of the regulator...you will be surprised where all the bubbles come from :unsure:
Hope this helps.
JWB

 

[Nearly]

Method4: Decide on carbonation pressure desired (in range say of 9 to 14 lbs) then put cold keg under this pressure for a week. Ensure that your beer line setup looses the corresponding amount of pressure on way to tap.

For anyone that's interested... yep it works!!

I am delighted to find that the pressure that I was losing was actually gas going into the beer... it doesnt happen now. On day 5 I had beer that had a good head, left lacing on the glass, and had tiny bubbles continually streaming from nucleation points at the bottom of the glass. The bubbles were tiny... you have to look hard to see them but it is beer not champagne so I think that is the norm. (Note to self: drop into a pub and try over the bar beer again to check... )

For me I think a single tap with 2 kegs connected to gas by a T piece will be a easy no fuss solution. Second is slowly carbonating while I am drinking the first. Now I have to try out the methods that produce take-away six packs from the kegs.... thanks to all for the advice you gave me.

 

[dane]

What does 9 to 14 lbs equate to in PSI/KPA?

I also remember GMK talking after his visit to MSB that he realised that he was carbonating at a too high prsssure. I assume this slower carbinating (over 5 days) will give better results.

I'm putting on kegiing GMK Munich Helles tonight (tasted damn good from the secondary in the fridge) so I want to get it all right. Can't wait for it.

 

[Nearly]

What does 9 to 14 lbs equate to in PSI/KPA?

Hello fiscus, (Thanks for this wonderful resource)

According to this site you need to multiple lbs by 6.8947 to convert to KPA. So if you wanted say 10 lbs (PSI is pounds(lbs) per square inch) then it comes to 68.9 KPA. I am fairly happy with 10PSI at the moment but suspect that I would be better off with slightly higher.

But Docs method is a lot faster... 300KPA for 48 hours then down to pouring pressure. I tried it but had a not so good result because the gauge doesnt register properly at higher pressure and so I think I overcarbonated.

I am sure that Docs method would work if I had done it right. On the other hand the idea of only using one pressure all the time really appeals to me. But it only works if your lines give the corresponding amount of resistance. Hope this helps.

 

[GMK]

kpa to psi calculations

I have been told that 100kpa = 14psi.
So nearly is right.

I try and gas at 25 psi or approx 175 kpa....

300 kpa is a bit high and can lead to frothing/air bubble problems.

i gas the keg overnight at 175 kpa after rocking it for 5 mins.

Hope this helps.

Fiscus - the Munich is really tops with the liquid yeast.

 

[dane]

Fiscus - the Munich is really tops with the liquid yeast.

GMK tell me about it - I'm about to put it in a keg now and uncarbinated it tastest beautiful.

Really looking forwward to this one - I think it will be a regular

 

[Doc]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I have found a good informative page that will help explain the things you need to know about having beer on tap at home.

Check out this page here.

It is American, but the principals are the same.

It details:

Understanding CO2 in beer.
Understanding pressure in dispense
Understanding the temperature / pressure balance
Understanding pouring problems
Quality Issues (cleaning, shelf life, glassware)
Choosing a regulator
Selecting the right type of tubing
Selecting a faucet
Selecting a shank
Using the proper restriction (line length)

Beers,
Doc