Keg Problems: Flat Beer, Even At 100kpa / 2c

[dagwood]

Hi,

I have been trying to get a decent beer out of my kegs for a couple of weeks now to no avail.

My problem (well, one of) is that I cannot get the beer gassy enough.

My fridge is running around 2C. I have tried gassing the beer to 50, then 75, then 100kpa.

I have 4m of 5mm beer line, which seems to be right going by the calculations I have seen.

At 100kpa, it comes out as mostly foam. So I vented the pressure in the keg, turned the reg right down to almost nothing, and poured it out ever so slowly. Even pouring this slowly, there was still not enough gas in it.

When I went to 100kpa, I set the reg to 100, connected the gas to the beer out post, and shook the keg for a few minutes (till I could hear no more gas bubbling into the keg). I then left the keg with gas on for another couple of days to make sure the gas had equalised.

Am I doing something blindingly wrong here? I've ran out of ideas.

The guy at the homebrew shop suggested that maybe at 100kpa, the beer is overgassed, and as such, the bubbles escape from the beer extremely quickly after pouring, leaving me with flat beer. Does this make sense?

Any ideas guys?

I also have to say, that this is an excellent site, and I've received heaps of useful information, whether from posting, or just reading others posts. I've gone from being a strictly K&K brewer (using table sugar of all things), to using different grains and malts. I can't believe the difference it makes in my beers.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jpiwek]

Hi,

I have been trying to get a decent beer out of my kegs for a couple of weeks now to no avail.

My problem (well, one of) is that I cannot get the beer gassy enough.

My fridge is running around 2C. I have tried gassing the beer to 50, then 75, then 100kpa.

I have 4m of 5mm beer line, which seems to be right going by the calculations I have seen.

At 100kpa, it comes out as mostly foam. So I vented the pressure in the keg, turned the reg right down to almost nothing, and poured it out ever so slowly. Even pouring this slowly, there was still not enough gas in it.

When I went to 100kpa, I set the reg to 100, connected the gas to the beer out post, and shook the keg for a few minutes (till I could hear no more gas bubbling into the keg). I then left the keg with gas on for another couple of days to make sure the gas had equalised.

Am I doing something blindingly wrong here? I've ran out of ideas.

The guy at the homebrew shop suggested that maybe at 100kpa, the beer is overgassed, and as such, the bubbles escape from the beer extremely quickly after pouring, leaving me with flat beer. Does this make sense?

Any ideas guys?

I also have to say, that this is an excellent site, and I've received heaps of useful information, whether from posting, or just reading others posts. I've gone from being a strictly K&K brewer (using table sugar of all things), to using different grains and malts. I can't believe the difference it makes in my beers.

Thanks in advance.

Have you gave the Ross Method a go? I was also having problems not too long ago and it worked for me.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Dagwood, there are a lot of methods for gassing your beer, I have settled on one that suites my system.

Chill beer in fermenter at 4-6 for a couple of days (helps drop the yeast out) then rack to your keg. Apply gas @ 280 kpa and leave the gas on for 24 hrs. After 24hrs disconnect gas line and vent the gas fom the keg by lifting the pressure relief valve. Then set your regulator to 80 KPA and reconnect gas to keg. 80 KPA is the serving pressure that I find works best on my system, I have 2 mtr beer lines from keg to tap.

I get perfectly gassed beer everytime.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sammus]

maybe you should try not leaving it 100kpa for a few days after shaking it. if i shook it at 100kpa id leave it disconnected for a few days, vent pressure, then serve at ~50.

try propping the pressure release open overnight to de gas it a bit and it might be good after - how did it pour at 50kpa?

I usually turn my pressure up to 55kpa then leave it for about a week then its all good after...

 

[mika]

What was he FG of the beer ? I find it's basically impossible to get any carbonation into a beer with an FG below 1010 even with forced carbonation. The beer always tastes, not flat, but like it in a different kinda way. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[Uncle Fester]

What dispensing equipment do you have?

If you have a few metres of beer line to a fridge tap or a font on a bench, then use the Ross method and leave the beer at 10 or so psi (actual pressure is dependant on the length of beer line)

If you are dispensing straight from the keg through a tap attached to the beer post then you need to leave the beer at 10 or so psi when dormant in the fridge, but you need to vent the keg to 1 or so PSI to serve.

Check out balanced systems threads on this site and others. Basically you need to maintain 10 PSI in the keg to keep the beer carbonated, and need to dispense at a pressure of about 1PSI at the tap.

A bit tricky to tweak, but works a treat when you have it right.

PM me if you want a better (sober :blink: ) explaination.


Fester.

 

[Kingy]

i have 5 metres of 5mm beer line and set it to 120kpa and let it slowly carb up over about 8 days it has aged a little and its ready to drink. When i drink ales i put 4metres of 5mm beer line and set to about 85kpa
just remember even when force carbing it still takes a few days to settle out alltho you shouldnt have a problem with pouring a beer.

my first keg was wasted froth and the next 4 were good untill i had it down pat. Now i can adjust line length and kpa to suit and its excellent. No bubbles no excessive froth and always bubbling from the bottom of the glass and raising a new head after every sip.

Just takes a little time to work out your system

cheers kingy

p.s Dunno, forgot what i was gunna say...it was good but :unsure:
edit r yea dunno if this make sense been on the red wine and it was nice and flat.

 

[Screwtop]

Have you gave the Ross Method a go? I was also having problems not too long ago and it worked for me.

Like Yeastflake says try Ross' method, used this method for 12 months but now use the same method as AndrewQld. Am just a bit more organised now and find it easier doing it this way.

Something does not sound right.

 

[Keifer]

Your low temp of 2 degrees would be helping absorb more co2, but i would set it a bit warmer, personally i have mine set to 5.

When you pour a glass, does it have a head then quickly disappears? no head at all? does it pour at a decent speed? too fast? do you have good clean glasses?

Check to make sure you have no leaks in the lines, then just keep upping the pressure till you get it right.

 

[dagwood]

Thanks for the suggestions to far.

In answer to the questions:

I have tried the Ross method, with the same results.

At 50kpa it poured slowly, with no head/bubbles.

I don't know what the FG was, i stopped taking readings after my hydrometer tube broke. Have been meaning to buy another one.

I use a Pluto gun to dispense. I have checked the adjustment, and its set to open fully.

I have read heaps about balanced systems, and the spreadsheet from crozdog about line length/serving pressure. The 2C, 70kpa, should give me 2.5 volumes. According to the spreadsheet, I should only need 1m of 5mm line to be balanced. Even if I up the pressure to 100kpa, it should give me 3 volumes. Yet when I pour a beer there are no bubbles.

I pour from the pluto gun into a glass jug. Then I pour from the jug into my beer mug (less trips to the garage). If I pour quickly into the bottom of the mug from the jug (to agitate the beer), I get a fair bit of head, but still no bubbles in the beer. The head then quite quickly disappears. I have even tried cleaning the glass (jug and mugs) as per the method Batz posted a while ago (soda and vinegar).

I have tested for leaks by putting 100kpa into the system, then turning off the bottle of gas. Came back a couple of days later, and the needle hadn't moved. I have also left the gas turned on for a week at a time, and have not emptied my bottle. So I'm sure there are no leaks.

Should I just keep turning the pressure up till I get the amount of carbonation I want? I set it to 120kpa (which seems way to much) last night shook the begeezus out of it, and left it connected and gas turned on over night. I'll test it tonight.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Ummm, the only time I see bubbles in my beer is when I use a headmaster glass, just because there are no bubble doesn't mean your beer isn't carbed enough, it just means that the gas isn't escaping from the beer.
As a way of checking that your beer is carbing drop a few grains of salt in the glass of beer, if it's carbed you will see heaps of bubbles rising from the bottom of the glass.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[jpiwek]

As a way of checking that your beer is carbing drop a few grains of salt in the glass of beer, if it's carbed you will see heaps of bubbles rising from the bottom of the glass.

Cheers
Andrew
[/quote]

Hmm. Didnt know that, just gave it a go and got lots of bubbles so...somthing must be right...