Keg Force Carb With Carbonation Stone

[Doc]

Been looking and meaning to do this for some time, but never had the driver to really do it.
I now have the need as I'm brewing this weekend and it must be on tap two weekends later for my son's birthday.

Bascially this is the setup. I plan on using a plastic tube and already have a 0.5 micro carbonation stone.

What I can't find any info on is how long it actually takes to carbonate. The figures I can find state 6-24 hours.

From here

Our Keg Carbonation Stone will allow you to gently carbonate a cold keg of beer in 24 hours or less. Just install the stone in the gas side of your keg, fill with beer, chill, and turn the gas on to 15-25 PSI for 6 to 24 hours (depending on the level of carbonation desired, temperature, and type of beer). The beer will carbonate quickly as the gas bleeds out of the two micron stone at the keg bottom and trickles up through the cold beer, permeating the beer with dissolved C02.

I'm thinking if I select my carbonation level using this carbonation chart and just set the regulator at the right pressure it should happen within a few hours with a 0.5 micron stone.

Anyone done it and can provide some experience ?

Doc

 

[JasonY]

Doc, I think AusDB has used this technique. From memory he said something about lifting the relief valve periodically to keep the CO2 bubbling to speed things up. Hope you don't overcarb it if you are using a higher pressure than you serve at.

 

[Samwise Gamgee]

Out of curiosity, why not use the Ross Method? Works for me and pretty quickly too, just need to let it settle for a couple of hours.

 

[Doc]

Doc, I think AusDB has used this technique. From memory he said something about lifting the relief valve periodically to keep the CO2 bubbling to speed things up. Hope you don't overcarb it if you are using a higher pressure than you serve at.

Yep. That is why I was thinking of not going past the pressure required for the volume of CO2 I'm looking for using the carb chart.

Out of curiosity, why not use the Ross Method? Works for me and pretty quickly too, just need to let it settle for a couple of hours.

My gas lines are internal to the serving freezer, and not long enough to get outside for the rock method.

Doc

 

[user 384]

Hi Doc

I'm sure you will have already thought of this, but you will need some form of flow back/Check valve, as the gas dip tube will extend into the beer and when you connect the gas QD you will open this up, allowing beer to flow back towards the reg.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Justin]

I wonder though how easily liquid will pass back through a 0.5uM stone? It wouldn't be very quick I'd imagine but have no direct experience. I just know there is a fair bit of resistance in the 0.5uM stones, so you may be right in regards to back flow.

The trick will be to not blow the carbonation stone off the end of the diptube.

Nice work though Doc. Have you already tried putting a liquid diptube down through the gas port side? Some of my kegs have a little step on them that prevents the use of a liquid diptube and only allows the short gas dip tube. If you were serious enough you could just drill the step out but just thought I'd mention it in case your keg has something similar.

Cheers, Justin

 

[Adamt]

I now have the need as I'm brewing this weekend and it must be on tap two weekends later for my son's birthday.

Damn, isn't your son like 6? I wish my dad threw me keg parties when I was that young :S

 

[Doc]

Hi Doc

I'm sure you will have already thought of this, but you will need some form of flow back/Check valve, as the gas dip tube will extend into the beer and when you connect the gas QD you will open this up, allowing beer to flow back towards the reg.

Cheers
MAH

Yep I have check valves on the manifold of all gas lines.

I wonder though how easily liquid will pass back through a 0.5uM stone? It wouldn't be very quick I'd imagine but have no direct experience. I just know there is a fair bit of resistance in the 0.5uM stones, so you may be right in regards to back flow.

The trick will be to not blow the carbonation stone off the end of the diptube.

Nice work though Doc. Have you already tried putting a liquid diptube down through the gas port side? Some of my kegs have a little step on them that prevents the use of a liquid diptube and only allows the short gas dip tube. If you were serious enough you could just drill the step out but just thought I'd mention it in case your keg has something similar.

Cheers, Justin

My disconnects aren't reversible either.
Internally the gas inlet has the small gas dip tube. I plan to get another one to put the plastic gas line with the carbonation stone on, so I can swap it in and out has required.

I now have the need as I'm brewing this weekend and it must be on tap two weekends later for my son's birthday.

Damn, isn't your son like 6? I wish my dad threw me keg parties when I was that young :S

He'll be four. It is more for the family and friends.

Doc

 

[crozdog]

[

Out of curiosity, why not use the Ross Method? Works for me and pretty quickly too, just need to let it settle for a couple of hours.

My gas lines are internal to the serving freezer, and not long enough to get outside for the rock method.

Doc

Doc, in order to use the "ross method" with your gas setup, you might like to do what i do.

I use a modified version of the "ross method" in that i charge the keg to 3bar / 300kpa then remove the gas, rock vigourously, connect the gas again - see the pressure, recharge to 3bar / 300kpa & shake again. I find that if I do this a few times everything carbs up well. Sure you have to pull the keg out of the fridge / freezer but if you're in a hurry..... Don't forget to let it sit for a while before using.

Beers

Crozdog

 

[Justin]

I used to do something similar to Croz dog but I would only pressurize to my serving pressure of ~100kPA (not 300kPa). I just kept shaking and reattaching to the CO2 bottle to measure the pressure drop until I would no longer get gas going into the keg and it was stable at 100kPa. That way I wouldn't over carb. Works a bit better if you can shake while still attached to the gas bottle (in that you can hear the gas going in and hear when it stops) but works non the less.

Using 300kPa may make it go in a little quicker, but I found it went in quickly enough with just 100kPa and there were no whoopsies.

 

[Jye]

You can get something similar from More beer. Maybe a search of their forum will bring something up.

 

[Doc]

Many searches later I've found this here

An example for average carbonation in beer would be to chill your beer to 40F. Adjust your regulator to 2 PSI, and attach the gas disconnect. Every 3 minutes increase the pressure 2 PSI until you reach 12 PSI. At this point your beer will be carbonated, but it wouldnt hurt to leave it alone in the refrigerator for a few days under pressure.

It appears to be backed up by this blog entry

Sounds positive.
Will give it a crack.

Doc

 

[Doc]

I have all the bits, and should have the time tonight to get it all configured. If all goes well I'll keg tonight, chill overnight and carbonate over breakfast tomorrow
Seriously though, while at the Beer Factor with the Hills Brewers on Monday, they mentioned they force carbonate with a carbonation stone. 50 litre keg, with carbonation stone (larger than mine) does the job in 4 mins at 400kpa.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Doc]

Carbonation stone on the end of some gas tubing.


Carbonation stone on tubing attached to the gas dip tube.


First test with the keg lid open.


After a couple of quick squirts in a closed system with pressures up to 300kpa a test pour on the tap temp water I put in the keg (about 1/3 full). Brilliant carbonated water. Looks like the system is a goer.


All in all a successful test.
The keg I've fitted to is new to me, so it is now sitting in caustic solution overnight before receiving its first beer tomorrow night.


Beers,
Doc

 

[ausdb]

Yep. That is why I was thinking of not going past the pressure required for the volume of CO2 I'm looking for using the carb chart.

Doc thats the way I do it, get your beer to a little bit less than serving temp then work out the CO pressure for the correct volumes of CO at that temp, that is the pressure that you set you your reg for.

Then put the gas on to the keg and burp the relief valve until you start to get foam out of the valve. Once that happens stop and leave the keg to settle down for 1/2 an hour to an hour, then burp the relief valve and repeat the process. You can get it reasonably carbed up in only a couple of hours by just purging the CO through it and quite easily overnight with a few purges here and then. HAve a tap connected and sample regularly, to make sure its carbed just right

A more extreme method is to get the keg to about 1C then put it in a bucket of ice water and set your CO pressure for the correct volumes to suit the lowered beer temp. Repeat the purge and wait cycle but do it every 5 or 10 minutes, you will easily carbonate a keg in under a hour with no overgassing. There is some info on the technique in the book by Fix that is out of print and expensive to buy

I wonder though how easily liquid will pass back through a 0.5uM stone? It wouldn't be very quick I'd imagine but have no direct experience. I just know there is a fair bit of resistance in the 0.5uM stones, so you may be right in regards to back flow.

Very easily if the pressure differential is there :excl:

A tip if you are going to use this method is once the beer is carbonated transfer it to a separate serving keg. I went to a party once with a keg with a carb stone attached to the gas dip tube. I had to leave before the keg ran out so left the keg there connected to a sodastream with reg. The sodastream ran out and the next day as the keg was left outside the pressure in the keg managed to blow beer back up through the stone through the reg and half filled the sodastream bottle. It was quite funny taking that sodastream boittle back to Kmart for a refill :lol: :lol:
That reg doesn't get used anymore for some reason and I bought a few check valves from GMK and fitted them to my other regs.

HTH

 

[Doc]

Great tips. Thanks Ausdb.
Will give an update on how it goes.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Doc]

This morning I fired the carbonation stone up.
20 kpa for 3 mins
Increased the pressure to 40 kpa for another 3 mins
Increased the pressure to 60 kpa for another 3 mins
Increased the pressure to 80 kpa for another 3 mins
Increased the pressure to 100 kpa and left there for about 10 mins. A nice mediumly carbonated porter.
When I got home tonight I put the gas back on at 100kpa and sampled at 5-10 min intervals. After about 40 mins it was perfect.
The carbonation seems to be a bit finer too, which is a bit weird.

Doc

 

[dubzau]

yeah, I used to use a 0.5 micro diffusion stone and I was pretty much able to turn on the gas and pour - that might be a slight exaggeration but I recall it was very fast. I haven't done it for a while because I didn't think it was worth the bother (I mean by using the "crank up the pressure and rock the keg" method you can be drinking in a day or two anyhow), and once I left the gas QD connected and the beer flowed back up the gas tube. Luckily it didn't get into my regulator, but be careful if you don't have a backflow prevention thingy on your reg.

 

[MarkBastard]

Thought I'd bump this.

doc are you still using the stone?

I want to step away from force carbing for various reasons, I want to be able to carb quickly with minimal effort at serving pressure only.

How long do you think it would take to carbonate to desired level using one of these stones at serving pressure?

Also what sanitation issues do you have if any?

 

[Cocko]

NICE M^B, 2 and 1/2 year bump....

Anyway, cheers as there is interest here too!

Doc? or anyone got anything to add RE: Carb stones?