Just how DO you get that juicy IPA taste and aroma?

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Seriously. I've tried flameout hops of around 150gms and 200gms dry hopping with fresh pellet hops and just never end up with a great microbrew commercial quality product. Why is this?

 

[manticle]

Sulphate levels and post fermentation oxygen exposure are 2 likely candidates

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Cheers Manticle. Just a little background. Im going to 300ppm sulphate (which is 12gms gypsum for me) and stilll it's not happening . Though, I've also done around 8gms and had seemingly better results.. is it possible my water report is inaccurate and I'm massively overdoing the salts? I do 3gms chloride normally also, which is a 'perfect' pale ale match in Bru n water with my water report (Darwin)

 

[manticle]

I'm not a massive fan of stupidly hop forward beers but 300 ppm seems much too high to me. I'd aim for 150 - 200 max and that's presuming mash pH is taken care of.

Next - reduce oxygen exposure during conditioning and packaging.

Obviously hop type and freshness will also impact.

Try dry hopping in stages, dry hop warm, dry hop cold, first wort hop, split late hopping into small hop doses every 3-5 mins from 20 to 0, try chilling if you are no chilling, bump up whirlpool additions, cube hop if cubing.

Lots of tricks, play around.

 

[malt junkie]

As mant's says hops in different places give differing affects, trying differing whirlpool addition temps, hop back to chill, dry hopping at different ferment temps stages; all change the out come. No one can tell you exactly how your brew system will work with any advice they give however the basics are pretty much the same but never to the letter. You may need water adjustments to push those flavours your chasing. The best person to figure that out is you and those local to you, check what the guys at your local brew club are doing, try their IPAs and get the down low on the ones you like.

 

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

It's very hard to achieve, go with less hops used better next time round. And be ruthless about O2 pickup: aromatic hop oils are especially vulnerable.

From my last experiment with cube hopping, I am going to try it again. Cube hopping a Saison with motueka brought it right into a good base IPA hop profile

What would happen if I tried that with something like mosaic or citra? Cube hops go a long way too - you don't need a lot

 

[Gloveski]

I was suprised with a single hop Galaxy dry hoping warm for 2 days and then cold for 2 days how different it was , was pressure fermented aswell so no oxygen issues , but chalk and cheese from whatI have done before.
Must add also first brew looking at salt additions so that might have had a bit to do with it also

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well funnily enough I've ordered 1kg of Galaxy! But seeming I've tried most of the incredulous amazing Americano hops 'we'll see' it all still cones down to something I'm missing at asmall home brewer level

 

[ein stein]

Kegging or bottling? I couldn't get the hoppyness I was craving in my beers until I started kegging. Pretty sure it is to do with oxygenation during bottling process.

 

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Ein stein: I bottle & bottle condition and I struggle in this regard too. Will need to purge or otherwise minimise O2 pickup. The yeast is sufficient to stop beer oxidation, but not enough to preserve the hops I think

 

[Garfield]

My juiciest IPA was achieved with galaxy:

85% pale
10% rye
5% rolled oats

Hops:
None during boil
1g/L flameout with whirlpool
1g/L at high krausen for 3 days
1g/L late ferment for 3 days
1g/L post ferment for 3 days

Juicey as hell! Loads of passion fruit flavour

Hope that helps

 

[SeeFar]

None during boil?

Did you still get much bitterness from the hop sched you used?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Bottling

Kegging or bottling? I couldn't get the hoppyness I was craving in my beers until I started kegging. Pretty sure it is to do with oxygenation during bottling process.

 

[Dan Pratt]

when your saying juicy, that makes me think of NEIPA style which is the polar opposite of typical ways to make an IPA.

They are using 200ppm of Cholride and only 50-70ppm of sulphate, basically swapping the 2 around, pushing high chlorides.

You want to chase a heap of late hops, eg 5min or less, flameout, WP @ less than 80c, WP @` less than 60c, dry hop day 1 of fermentation and again dry hop day 4 of fermentation.

Use really fruity hops like Galaxy, Citra, Mosaic, Simcoe, Amarillo etc etc.

Whilst bottling though your O2 pickup will be off the charts and basically wrecking your hops oil stability and they would break down quite fast.

Google, closed system brewing and dissolved oxygen and you will see it takes alot of equipment and effort to get the best out of your hops.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I think it's in the bottling then by sounds of it. How the hell are the commercial guys getting theirs into bottles without degredation?

There are some of the big guys who make them just as me, without much distinguishable character but others are just like sniffing a freshly opened bag of hops

 

[droid]

I've canned and bottled at two micros - both have already had the beer carbed and hopped in tanks. The bottles/cans are purged with co2 then filled and capped (possibly with a little injection of c02 to top it off - can't remember) on a foamy head.

I met a guy the other day who used to work at Gage Roads in the early years, he said they worked out that a shot of hot water (not sure of temp and amount) was used just before capping the bottles...but again this is carbed beer going into bottles not uncarbed and sugar

sorry - prolly not that helpful but maybe an insight into at least a couple of micros and how they go about it

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Hmm. I'll try that little shot of hot, just to see if it makes any difference on my level. Thanks man

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

What does the co2 purge do, and is it worthwhile me trying?

Also, how does transferring to a keg rather than bottle differ in exposure to oxygen? I would think it's just as high

 

[droid]

Hmm. I'll try that little shot of hot, just to see if it makes any difference on my level. Thanks man

It may have been a squirt of steam and it was trial and error but they worked it out ... and it was carbed beer, if yours is uncarbed I can't see how it would help, it was more about answering your question about how do some micros do things. The squirt caused foaming and they would cap at that time it was foaming out of the bottle.

At least some canning/bottling lines have a length of rod that goes right down to the bottom of the can or near the bottom and a quick blast of c02 goes direct to the base - The beer is then filled under the blanket of c02 (if you believe that a blanket exists) If you went to kegging you can closely mirror the commercial set-up with a few doo-dads. I could be wrong, this is my understanding of things and how I do it, albeit with a beer gun.

Good luck, hopefully a bottle conditioned bottler that makes super hoppy beers will help - if they haven't already lol

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I think the only help with bottling I've received is people saying it can't be done.. not sure it can be done for home brewers???