Just For The Hell Of It.

[Paleman]

This is going against all homebrew philosophy. So sit down, have a homebrew and help me out.

I want to try and replicate a commercial lager, doing a partial mash. Just to see if its possible to make a bland, thin, clear homebrew......with a proffesional touch. E.G. Fosters, West End Draught, Tooheys Draught or Fourex Bitter. Something along the lines of the said mentioned.

So where do i start ??

Obviously its got to finish down at a very low SG, so a good attenuating yeast has to be used. Maybe two satchets of Saflager for a 24 litre brew.

2.5 kilo of Joe White Traditional as a base grain, or is this too heavy ? I know its an ale malt, but its a good all round Aussie malt. Maybe i could cut that back to 2 kilo, and add half a kilo of a wheat malt maybe ?

My tunning would have to be very slow and careful, recirculating the wort till it is chrystal clear.

Then a kilo and a half of the lightest dried malt i can find, of the finest quality, maybe a kilo of light malt and half a kilo of wheat malt. The wheat for head retention.

Then the hopping........bittering with POR, flavouring with POR, and maybe no aroma additions. We dont want any floral finishes

Additions to the wort, now that its in the fermenter ?? finings ?....something to really clear the Primary after its fermented. Then the usual racking, and of course cold conditioning.

Chemicals........are there any i need to add ? Preservatives maybe ?

Anyone got a recipe that comes close to this..........I'm serious. I wanna give it a go.

Theres no rush though....wont be doing it till winter sets in :lol: Just after some ideas and recipes. To get this project off the ground. :super:

 

[Adamt]

First of all, shame shame shame.

Secondly, you'd probably want 20% sugar to keep it thin and insipid. Mash low for super-dry, low-carb yuppiness. Use the lightest, cheapest malt you can get.

A filtering probably wouldnt hurt either.

 

[Kai]

This doesn't go against "homebrew philosophy" at all, it's all about brewing what you set out to achieve.

I'd use JW pils instead to lighten the colour. Being a partial, I'd use an additional 300 or so grams of sugar to lighten the body, extract tends to attenuate poorly in my experience. Use dry rather than liquid extract as it is slightly lighter in colour.

US-56 (US-05, sorry) would do for the yeast in my opinion. Easier to manage, attenuates well and is fairly bland. A small pride addition for flavour would be fine and you might find it pleasantly surprising. Keep it to around 25 IBU max and aim for an OG of around 1.040 - 1.045.

 

[T.D.]

I know it goes against all logic, but I think this is quite an interesting exercise. If you can nail it, at least you will be more informed when telling off your megaswill-drinking mates! :lol:

But yeah, definitely around 20% sugar would be a good bet. It may not be traditionally the way the big guys brew but I have found some beers that I have brewed with a fairly high proportion of wheat malt have had a bit of a "commercial" taste to them (but I guess more like Coopers than Tooheys New). Anyway maybe something like 60% pale malt, 20% wheat malt, and 20% sugar. If its a partial, just use 1kg of LME in place of some of the pale malt.

And on the hopping, I wouldn't bother with a late addition of anything. Just a bittering addition.

I guess go for about 1.040 OG (and a FG of around 1.004) and 20-22 IBUs.

You could use a dry enzyme to ensure the low FG but I would rather your technique of boosing the yeast and hoping it gets the FG lower that way. I have found dry enzyme gives the beer quite anb artificial flavour. Oops... that's the home brewer coming out in me again - might be just the ticket on second thoughts!! :lol:

 

[Voosher]

Sugar sugar without the honey honey.
I've brewed all malt lagers and I can't get them dry enough to compare with Aussie lagers.
Sugar and a good yeast to make sure that the minimal malt gets picked up in the flavour profile.
I reckon 1040 OG and about 25IBU max and no hops after 60m.
I have something along those lines down at the moment using the 2112 Wyeast and it tastes too characterful and too 'European' compared with my expectations. Granted it is still in the fermenter but I can't see it getting too deep into the Lawnmower class. Nice tasting beer though.

 

[Paleman]

This doesn't go against "homebrew philosophy" at all, it's all about brewing what you set out to achieve.

I'd use JW pils instead to lighten the colour. Being a partial, I'd use an additional 300 or so grams of sugar to lighten the body, extract tends to attenuate poorly in my experience. Use dry rather than liquid extract as it is slightly lighter in colour.

US-56 (US-05, sorry) would do for the yeast in my opinion. Easier to manage, attenuates well and is fairly bland. A small pride addition for flavour would be fine and you might find it pleasantly surprising. Keep it to around 25 IBU max and aim for an OG of around 1.040 - 1.045.

Thanks Kai, ever the philosophor !! :beerbang:

Do ya think the US 56 would give that lager taste ? The beer needs to smell like rotten eggs, when you go for a sip. Maybe if you ferment it down to 15- 16 degrees.

 

[Paleman]

Geez, so many fast replys, cant keep up with you guys. Thanks dudes.

 

[Tony]

This is what i would do.

JW pils, some caramalt to keep the colour and body up a bit and 25 odd % sugar. At least use dextrose...... it doesnt hurt to make things a bit better.

you could drop 10g of hallertau or hersbrucker in at flame out if you wanted for a premium hit

I sugest using whole POR flowers..... i recon you get a better result with them. comp results have proven this for me!!!. I have been told the brewerys use pellets but its up to you.

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 3.75
Anticipated OG: 1.044 Plato: 11.05
Anticipated EBC: 6.1
Anticipated IBU: 22.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
69.3 2.60 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 3
26.7 1.00 kg. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
4.0 0.15 kg. JWM Caramalt Australia 1.036 50

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
20.00 g. Pride of Ringwood (whole) Whole 9.60 22.2 60 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP830 German Lager


Mash it at about 66..... the sugar will thin out the body enough and brew with a dry clean lager yeast. WLP830 is great and W34-70. I think they are the same thing.

cheers

 

[mika]

Gelatin for really clearing it out ?

 

[Paleman]

you could drop 10g of hallertau or hersbrucker in at flame out if you wanted for a premium hit





cheers

Tony.......your recipe is now saved. Thankyou very much for your effort. :beerbang:

But you are a very naughty brewer.........premium is out.......we cant have any floral hop finishing with this beer.

Im on a mission !!.........i will not make a premium. Just a thin, clear, Aussie Lager.

Mind you, i'd be happy to make a premium Lager

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Dude, that isn't such a bad idea

If you can produce a beer that your mate's say "is great, tastes just like VB", then you can slowly lead them away from such swill by feeding them better beers step by slight step

PZ.

 

[barfridge]

Find a high dextrin malt, like the CUB spec malt that Kirin make. Mash quite low, but with a high OG. Add up to 30% sugar.

Water down resultant product, pasteurise, filter lots, add isomerised hop extract.

The challenge:
- drink 3 bottles of this, then pee into a glass. Once glass is chilled, attempt to find a difference between product in, and product out.

 

[Simon W]

Barf! thats disgusting(sp?)













I Mean the isomerised hop extract by the way!

 

[ArnieW]

I found out some interesting details about a certain flagship product of a North Tassie brewery the other day.

82% pale malt
18% cane sugar

2g/kg malt calcium chloride
2g/kg malt gypsum

50C for 20 mins
64C for 45 mins
74C for 10 mins

PoR at 6g/kg malt for boil
PoR at 10mins at 3g/kg malt

SG 13.6 Plato

Fermented at 16C !!!

for bottling, at 65mg Tetra Hop to 165ml water for each litre.

I hope this is useful,

cheers

No wonder I no longer like the product!

 

[DJR]

I found out some interesting details about a certain flagship product of a North Tassie brewery the other day.

82% pale malt
18% cane sugar

2g/kg malt calcium chloride
2g/kg malt gypsum

50C for 20 mins
64C for 45 mins
74C for 10 mins

PoR at 6g/kg malt for boil
PoR at 10mins at 3g/kg malt

SG 13.6 Plato

Fermented at 16C !!!

for bottling, at 65mg Tetra Hop to 165ml water for each litre.

I hope this is useful,

cheers

No wonder I no longer like the product!

Lemme guess, B***'s Draught?

Hmm, how about

OG 1045, IBU 15

10% Carapils malt for dextrins (unless you can find Schooner high-dextrin malt)
60% JW Pils
30% of above weight Cane sugar (to make sure it's dry)

Mash @ 65C for 90m (long mash=lots of fermentables), sparge at 75, add cane sugar to kettle

4g of Calcium chloride (adds maltiness and pH adjustment)

Hop with POR at 75m only or add pure tetra-isohop after fermentation

Yeast: Wyeast 2042 Danish or WLP850 Copenhagen at 15C

Lager for 1-2 weeks (more is better but the big boys don't with too much lagering, adding Maturex enzyme helps with that, but you won't find that anywhere)

Preservatives shouldn't matter, just make sure you filter and keg it, if bottling, add a flocculent ale strain so it stays clear. Of course you could add Papain and some PGA to give the meringue-like head with a crystal clear beer, but clarity and head retention aren't something you're going to have to worry about too much with the recipe anyway.

Hard one to crack though, be VERY careful with sanitation as any off flavours will be detected immediately in the finished product!

I always think f*** it, why bother making beer for other people, if they don't like it, they can go buy that crap they like and save the good brew for me!

 

[Kai]

Thanks Kai, ever the philosophor !! :beerbang:

Do ya think the US 56 would give that lager taste ? The beer needs to smell like rotten eggs, when you go for a sip. Maybe if you ferment it down to 15- 16 degrees.

Maybe. You could always go a lager yeast instead, or maybe 1007 German Ale. That will throw up some sulphur.