It's Apple Season

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

This is how one of our members from another forum handled 800kg of apples this season in NZ.

edit; forgot the link


http://medicinalpurposes.wordpress.com/201...-a-cider-press/


First he pulped them with a sharpened motar mixer (threw in some pectinase too), then froze the pulp while he built the press. It's the same principle as a wine press, so should work the same.



To those afraid of juicing, i did 80 kg's in three hours flat with the missus halving and trimming and me juicing.

What juicer did you have? Brand & Model - I have a GF mate who wants to do some cidering with me, and will likely purchase the equipment if it's reasonably cost effective for him.

Cheers,
Goomba

 

[punkin]

http://www.breville.com.au/beverages/juice...aintm-plus.html

This one.
Takes whole apples, although they go easier on the machine if halved or quartered.

 

[mxd]

I just attempted my first cider, 20ltrs of Aldi Apple Juice and using us05. I went for the beer yeast as I had it and a few "homebrew" ciders I have tried used a wine yeast that was too "winey" for me and a little too dry.

The OG of my juice was 1.042, since I'm using US05 it will only drop to 1.010 ??

My Question, if I want more alcohol and even a little drier, by adding sugar, if I add it now, does it increase OG or assist in lowing FG ?


So if I want a 4.8% type drop how much sugar do I add ?

sorry for my noobness, I did search but couldn't find things

thanks
Matt

 

[Sprungmonkey]

just work out what OG you need to give you 4.8% and then work out the amount of sugar syrup you need to add (sugar syrups have a sg of around 1.3) to reach that gravity

I just attempted my first cider, 20ltrs of Aldi Apple Juice and using us05. I went for the beer yeast as I had it and a few "homebrew" ciders I have tried used a wine yeast that was too "winey" for me and a little too dry.

The OG of my juice was 1.042, since I'm using US05 it will only drop to 1.010 ??

My Question, if I want more alcohol and even a little drier, by adding sugar, if I add it now, does it increase OG or assist in lowing FG ?


So if I want a 4.8% type drop how much sugar do I add ?

sorry for my noobness, I did search but couldn't find things

thanks
Matt

 

[the_new_darren]

If juiced apples come in at 1.060 and apple juice is 1.042, does that mean the apple juice is watered down or just a different type of apple?

tnd

 

[manticle]

Just like grapes, apples and subsequent juice will vary season to season.

I've bought challenger hops at 11%aa one season, 6.2 % another and seen them advertised at around 4%.

Most juice of my experience, whether fresh crushed/pressed or store bought is around 1050-1060.

 

[Greg.L]

If juiced apples come in at 1.060 and apple juice is 1.042, does that mean the apple juice is watered down or just a different type of apple?

tnd

The juice you buy in a supermarket is mostly made from concentrate so the amount of water added is up to the processor. They leave the amount of sugar they consider the best balance between consumer demand and profit. Supermarket juice is a processed food, concentrated, pasteurised, diluted, stabilised etc etc. Fresh pressed juice is a completely different thing, the only thing in common is they both come from apples. Fresh pressed juice will vary with the seasons, the stage of ripeness and the variety, also cultural factors such as irrigation, fertiliser, pesticides etc. A good craft cider is a very individual thing, an expression of the fruit and the "terrior" as the French say, plus the cidermaker's input.

Greg

 

[mxd]

If juiced apples come in at 1.060 and apple juice is 1.042, does that mean the apple juice is watered down or just a different type of apple?

tnd

I assume different apples, some one on this thread mention they had a 1.060, 1.050 and 1.038.

But hey, it's aldi

 

[Muscovy_333]

The juice you buy in a supermarket is mostly made from concentrate so the amount of water added is up to the processor. They leave the amount of sugar they consider the best balance between consumer demand and profit. Supermarket juice is a processed food, concentrated, pasteurised, diluted, stabilised etc etc. Fresh pressed juice is a completely different thing, the only thing in common is they both come from apples. Fresh pressed juice will vary with the seasons, the stage of ripeness and the variety, also cultural factors such as irrigation, fertiliser, pesticides etc. A good craft cider is a very individual thing, an expression of the fruit and the "terrior" as the French say, plus the cidermaker's input.

Greg

The amount of water added or more correcty the composition of "apple juice" will be stipulated by FSANZ (Food Standards Australia and New Zealand). Processors need to ensure the composition falls within a regulated range to be able to call it apple juice. Commercial apple juice is more likely filtered, except the 'cloudy' versions.
Home grown apples= Seasonal = not standardised to the regs.

 

[Greg.L]

The amount of water added or more correcty the composition of "apple juice" will be stipulated by FSANZ (Food Standards Australia and New Zealand). Processors need to ensure the composition falls within a regulated range to be able to call it apple juice. Commercial apple juice is more likely filtered, except the 'cloudy' versions.
Home grown apples= Seasonal = not standardised to the regs.

Can you enlighten us as to the range allowed? I would have thought it would have been based on the range for straight apple juice. It would be odd if juice straight from an apple and only pasteurised were to fall outside the allowable range.

 

[Muscovy_333]

Can you enlighten us as to the range allowed? I would have thought it would have been based on the range for straight apple juice. It would be odd if juice straight from an apple and only pasteurised were to fall outside the allowable range.

Every season the apples would be different. It is not uncommon for food manufatcurers to extend their products for maximum yield.
Food standards therefore ensure the 'cowboys' are kept under control. As you mentioned, alot of processors import juice concentrate and reconstitute it. Even the companies that use Australian grown apples. One of those commercial necessities.

The range: no more than 40g/kg of added sugar.

Linky

 

[punkin]

I just attempted my first cider, 20ltrs of Aldi Apple Juice and using us05. I went for the beer yeast as I had it and a few "homebrew" ciders I have tried used a wine yeast that was too "winey" for me and a little too dry.

The OG of my juice was 1.042, since I'm using US05 it will only drop to 1.010 ??

My Question, if I want more alcohol and even a little drier, by adding sugar, if I add it now, does it increase OG or assist in lowing FG ?


So if I want a 4.8% type drop how much sugar do I add ?

sorry for my noobness, I did search but couldn't find things

thanks
Matt

Not that this has much to do with a thread about apples, but i'd be fairly worried about the longevity of a cider that has such a low alc volume. Not that i could see it finishing at 4.1% (1.01) but even if it finished dry it's still only a bit over 5%.

 

[punkin]

Got two more bins full today, should be another 40l or so. that'll do me for this season.

Real nice, clean apples too. as big as a double fist. :icon_cheers:

 

[troopa]

Ended up getting another cube out yesterday as well
I think the 2 cubes is about it from what were going to get from my mates orchard as the birds have decimated the rest .. time to look at netting next year as we should of gotten about close to 200 liters by whats on the ground

not bad for our first run ever on fresh juice but i got an itch now..
Anyone know of/want to consider going halves in a crate of seconds somewhere in melb/gippsland areas? (Depends on price of course as i got no idea how much a crate of seconds are)

 

[punkin]

On the last batch i added some lactic acid to bring the ph down to 3 when i pitched the yeast after juicing. This was on advice from a wine guy, so i'll be interested in the outcome.

 

[Greg.L]

Why such a low pH? I haven't heard of anyone aiming so low. 3.4 or below is fine for me.

 

[pat_00]

So I want to make some cider. The proper dry suffolk style stuff.

I'm in Preston, Melb. Where can I get the right apples for this? I read a lot of people substitute a small amount crab apples? Where can I get those?

 

[Greg.L]

There's no easy answer. You can grow your own apples, but it takes some time. Like punkin you can check out your local area for trees, this is the best way to get crabs. Apples at the market are often picked early so don't make the best cider, cider apples need to be fully ripe. Apples from cold storage will have a very high pH, not so good. It is getting a bit late but there might be late apples still on the trees if you ask around. Like wine, good English style cider is seasonal, you can't make it all year round.

Greg

 

[manticle]

Pretty hard to get the right apples for suffolk cider here.

Can try using a blend of eating apples and make sure you cover all the bases - sweet, tannic, bitter and acid. Can add crab apples (I've never used them) malic and tannic acid if you need to.

When I've used apples, I've found as many types as I could and used in equal portions with a touch of pear and nashi fruit.

Will be trying again in later autumn but with hopefully better extraction efficiency and some malic/tannic acid (which I've used with success in store bought juice based ciders)

 

[Newbee(r)]

Just scored 70kg of pink lady apples fresh off the tree (Canberra late harvest) which will go in the ferment on the weekend. Given these are table apples, do I need to do additions malic tannic etc or should it come out fine without them? Looking for a moderately sweet dry cider. Also, it doesn't look like anyone is using camden tablets to head off the wild yeasts on the fruit. I plan on breville juicing them, so figure they won't be on the skins but don't want to add extra sulphur if it isn't needed.

 

[Muscovy_333]

Just scored 70kg of pink lady apples fresh off the tree (Canberra late harvest) which will go in the ferment on the weekend. Given these are table apples, do I need to do additions malic tannic etc or should it come out fine without them? Looking for a moderately sweet dry cider.

Homebrew ciders will always ferment out dry unless you intervene in some way.

I have made a few attempts, my best result being 'wild apples' from a few self sewn trees at my folks house, picked tart and a small addition malic acid to taste pre-ferment.

IMHO, i would definitely add acid to table apples for a better result.

When you figure out how to consistently retain sweetness please let me know.

 

[Airgead]

Just scored 70kg of pink lady apples fresh off the tree (Canberra late harvest) which will go in the ferment on the weekend. Given these are table apples, do I need to do additions malic tannic etc or should it come out fine without them? Looking for a moderately sweet dry cider. Also, it doesn't look like anyone is using camden tablets to head off the wild yeasts on the fruit. I plan on breville juicing them, so figure they won't be on the skins but don't want to add extra sulphur if it isn't needed.

Straight pink Ladies may well come out too bland. I have had pink lady cider before and it was like fizzy water. You may well need to add some acid.

I'm using a mix of pink lady (for bulk), breaburn and granny smith. I have 50kg of them in the fridge ready to juice up this weekend. I'll throw in some crab apples as well. The grannies add a little acid and improve things no end.

Cheers
Dave

 

[manticle]

A touch of malic and tannic (around 5g of each from memory in 24 L) gave a nice complexity in two ciders that I've not had before. First lot added post ferment, 2nd pre-ferment.

Preference for the pre-ferment.

No need for sulphites with either fresh apples nor store bought juice in my experience - just get a nice healthy yeast starter going first.

 

[Fents]

went to the kellybrook cider festival on the weekend and took a cube to get some juice for my yearly KB Cider. at $4 a litre its not cheap but the juice is superb so should make a great cider.

 

[evildrakey]

There's a couple of great vids on youtube (of all places).

The one I'm going to give a go went like this...

Stage 1: Feed apples through one of those small cheap electric chipping machines into a big tub.
Stage 2: Separate liquid from solids.
Stage 3: Put apple chunks into a decent wooden crank-handle wine press.
Stage 4: Go Hard, collect the juice.

The way they fermented after the pressing was, frankly criminal, but the pressing process looked quite efficient...

they've blocked youtube at work but I can link it tonight...

 

[manticle]

Why criminal?

Was it a natural ferment (ie yeast present on the apple skins used to ferment)?

 

[Greg.L]

You should check the pH or TA before adding acid. Dessert apples can be more acidic than you think. I don't much like malic acid in cider, but if you can make it sweet it would balance. No point adding acid if the pH is under 3.4, which is perfectly possible given the cool summer this year.

 

[evildrakey]

Not so much that Manti... I'd have to look at the video again. I just remember watching it and going... yeah thats cool, yep... yep... the being faintly disgusted about something towards the end... I'll send the link in about 3 hours when I get home from work...

 

[Newbee(r)]

Great responses thanks. The granny smiths are coming off the trees this week helpfully, so will do 20kg GS to 70kg pinks across two batches, and check ph before a small malic and tannic additions.

Re sweetness, I could monitor gravity closely and crash chill the yeast hard before it hits FG, rack and filter to maintain sweetness and just enough residual yeast should remain to carb over time, but think a 150-200g lactose addition to balance afterwards would be lower risk. 90kg of apples should give me two batches of 18 litres all going well, so might do a side by side and post the results.

Thanks again

J

 

[Muscovy_333]

You should check the pH or TA before adding acid. Dessert apples can be more acidic than you think. I don't much like malic acid in cider, but if you can make it sweet it would balance. No point adding acid if the pH is under 3.4, which is perfectly possible given the cool summer this year.

Yep, valid point for sure.
Less risk of stressing the yeast as well.