Is Us-05 A Slow Fermenter?

[geneabovill]

Beer goes reasonably clear during bottle conditioning anyway. IMO, the clarity doesn't really affect the taste, but some styles call for crystal clear product.

If you're careful with your pour and leave about 25mm of beer in the bottom of the bottle, it should be satisfactory.

With regard to infection, rinsing yeast can introduce infection just as much as racking can. Unless you reculture from a single cell a la Braukaiser (www.braukaiser.com).

 

[wbosher]

Beer goes reasonably clear during bottle conditioning anyway. IMO, the clarity doesn't really affect the taste, but some styles call for crystal clear product.

If you're careful with your pour and leave about 25mm of beer in the bottom of the bottle, it should be satisfactory.

With regard to infection, rinsing yeast can introduce infection just as much as racking can. Unless you reculture from a single cell a la Braukaiser (www.braukaiser.com).

I't a kit Pilsener (hopfully my last kit beer), so needs to be pretty clear. Yeah, I might forget about the gel, I'll just try to get it as cold as I can over the next few days and then bottle.

I don't have the gear to rack anyway, I do have some jars ready to go for the yeast though. I'm doing this (harvest yeast) more as a practise exersise that anything else, just want to try it, but should still save me some $$$.

 

[juzz1981]

I haven't read all the posts here but I have had US-05 struggle when used under 17 degrees.

I have and usually ferment US05 at about 16c and will take 7 days to ferment out a 1050 OG to 1010 FG

I typically use a pack of US05 then split yeast cake into 4 containers which will give me 5 brews from the one pack, had no problems so far.
Since using brewbrite instead of whirlflock though, i cant seem to seperate the yeast from other trub so I just pitch the whole lot in to the new batch.

 

[Parks]

I have and usually ferment US05 at about 16c and will take 7 days to ferment out a 1050 OG to 1010 FG

I typically use a pack of US05 then split yeast cake into 4 containers which will give me 5 brews from the one pack, had no problems so far.
Since using brewbrite instead of whirlflock though, i cant seem to seperate the yeast from other trub so I just pitch the whole lot in to the new batch.

It's worth noting that my 16 degrees might not be your 16 degrees. Variance in thermometers, placement etc will give different readings. If you are measuring your fridge temp wort temp will most definitely be higher.

You also may be better at oxygenating your wort than me which would make a big difference at lower temps.

 

[bugeater]

Yeah, I thought about using gelatin but I want to wash and reuse the yeast for my next batch...hopefully my first AG one.

I've read a lot of conflicting reports on the affects of gelatin when harvesting yeast, so I'm a little hesitant in doing that.

I'm surprised the gelatin would affect the yeast in any major way. The yeast in my current batch fermenting has been through two prior ferments. Gelatined each time. First reuse was pouring straight onto the yeast cake. Second reuse was storing some yeast in a glass bottle in the fridge for a few days with a single wash with cooled previously boiled water.

 

[wbosher]

I'm surprised the gelatin would affect the yeast in any major way. The yeast in my current batch fermenting has been through two prior ferments. Gelatined each time. First reuse was pouring straight onto the yeast cake. Second reuse was storing some yeast in a glass bottle in the fridge for a few days with a single wash with cooled previously boiled water.

That's the problem. So many say almost exactly what you just said, and an equal amount say the opposite.

Might go with a coin toss.

 

[bugeater]

What is the bad that happens with using gelatine? I must say I've not heard of this till now.

Yeast are pretty hardy little beasties. I used to work with them in the lab for many years and you wouldn't believe the things we would do to them and what they would survive.

 

[wbosher]

From what I've read (well the bad half anyway), it's not about killing the yeast because you're not. It's about encasing the yeasties in a gelatinous goo that they can't escape from when you repitch - no all of the yeast but a good number of them.

Obviously this hasn't been your experience.

Bugger it, I might just give it a try anyway...my coin says tails.

 

[bum]

Your gut tells you this is an iffy situation. Why are you even thinking about this for your first AG batch? Try to limit the number of things you can stuff up, dude. Don't try to maximise them.

 

[wbosher]

Your gut tells you this is an iffy situation. Why are you even thinking about this for your first AG batch? Try to limit the number of things you can stuff up, dude. Don't try to maximise them.

Shit bum, you're right. I'll just gel it, and buy some more yeast. I'll play around with this another time.

 

[Mike L'Itorus]

without getting into a pissing match of dry yeast vs liquid yeast, let's just look at it from a cost perspective:

Time outlayed, vs cash outlayed. In either case, if in doubt, throw it out. It rhymes, so it must be true.

Liquid yeast is more expensive (on the initial purchase) than dry, so there is a natural tendancie to want to get future return on the initial expenditure. Fair enough, up to a point. But only to a point. I sometimes (but admittedly, not often) use dry yeast....bit given how cheap it is, eaven if everything goes 100% hunky-dory, it's so cheap it's not worth my time and effort to faff around with saving it. I consider it to be a throw-away item. ESPECIALLY when doing AG, which takes anywhere from 4 to 8 hours (if you want to get fancy-schmancy with all kinds of ridonculously kerfuffle-ish techniques) to do. Last thing I want to do is waste all that time and effort in order to shave $4.00 off the cost of 19L of kegged beer.....bigger picture, man. Look at the bigger picture.

2c.

 

[wbosher]

Bum, Mike, you're both right. When I first came up with the idea of trying this, doing AG was the furthest thing from my mind. At best I was thinking about the possibility of doing an extract brew.

As far as saving money, that depends on who you believe. Some say that you can get 5 generations out of us-05 with out any problems. Even if you take a more conservative view and go with say three generations, that's about 7 brews - assuming you get enough for 2 brews out of each harvest. If you go to 5th gen, your looking at 31 - that about NZ$215!!


Anyway, the main reason for me doing this was practice and just wanting to try something different. I'll take both your advice and keep things simple for the 1st AG.

 

[bugeater]

From what I've read (well the bad half anyway), it's not about killing the yeast because you're not. It's about encasing the yeasties in a gelatinous goo that they can't escape from when you repitch - no all of the yeast but a good number of them.

I guess you could just use a higher pitch rate if that is the case. Or you could use less gelatine to minimise the problem. Once they get growing the problem will be gone, since the majority of the yeast will be "new" yeast.

I've just had a quick read around and it looks like many of the "anti-reuse of gelatinised yeast" crowd actually haven't tried it and it failed. They just haven't tried.

Anyway, I agree with the others - if you are going to do your first AG batch, minimise the variables and just use a fresh packet of yeast. You can still harvest the yeast from your current batch to work through the workflow to harvest and wash the beasties for reuse.

 

[wbosher]

Yeah, I think I'm still going to do it even after the gelatine, just won't use it for this batch (or probably the next couple).

Want to give it a go to see how quick and easy it is (or not). Then I can make a decision on whether I'll do it in the future.

Thanks for the advice guys, you may very well have saved my first AG batch.

 

[wbosher]

I just pulled the fermenter out of my ice bath trying to keep sloshing to a minimum. Looks good.

Got it down to about 10oC and the yeast seems to have settled nicely. Even with the sloshing around lifting it out and moving it, didn't even disturb the trub.

Might not even need to worry about the gelatine.

 

[Killer Brew]

Bumping this necro thread because I'm experiencing a slow ferment with US-05 in a IIPA and am wondering if it is going to effect flavour adversely? Once it hits FG i intend throwing a large chunk of dry hops at it but don't want to waste them if the beer is going to be no good anyway. Thoughts?

A few details:
IIPA
21.5L
OG: 1071
Glad American Ale 5kg
Wey Wheat 0.4kg
Xtal Mdm 0.3kg
Acidulated 0.1kg

2 x pckts US-05 rehydrated and pitched in at 18 degrees after oxygenating by shaking the **** out of the fermenter. Has held between 16 - 18 degrees (cold overnight early on let it slip down a couple of degrees but have snuggled it with a hot water bottle in the fridge overnight since). After 24 hours gave the FV a bit more of a shake to get a little more oxygen in and last night gave it a swirl to rouse the yeast.

Adjusted refractometer readings after:
36 hrs 1062
96 hrs 1032
120 hrs 1027

Expected FG according to Beersmith is 1013 so still has a ways to go.

 

[razz]

All looks good to me mate, not sure you need to add O2 to dry yeast as it has plenty stored from the drying process. Down to 1.027 in 120 hours is a good result. Don't sweat!

 

[goatchop41]

Considered bumping your temp to 20-21-ish to help it finish out? Wouldn't have thought that it would give you unwanted flavours after this much time/in the last third of the gravity. Looks like it's managing well for 5-6 dys in anyhow.
I believe I read that Pirate Life use US-05 at ~21o the whole way through for their beers

 

[MHB]

You are asking US-05 to reach nearly 82% apparent attenuation, you are or have been near the bottom of the temperature range and didn't by the sound of it really aerate properly at the start.
I suspect 1.013 might be a bit ambitious, to get that sort of performance out of US-05 you really have to do everything right. Good to see that you pitched two packets in a high gravity beer, but I suspect that the temperature might be moving around more than you realise.
I'm going to suggest that you invest in a STC-1000 (they cost about the same as two packets of yeast on eBay) and find an old fridge, ideally put a fan in it and you wont need a heater. Temperatures moving around aren't very helpful if you are trying to push a yeast to its limits.

Shaking the fermenter after the start of ferment wont introduce any O2, its already been pushed out of the head space by CO2, nor is aeration usually necessary with good pitches of dry yeast - at or near the yeast's limits it can help but only at the start, after that introducing more O2 in not recommended.
Mark

 

[Killer Brew]

Thanks MHB. Yeah, I can see that 82% AA would be a stretch, perhaps more like 75% AA to get to 1.018 would be more realistic? I do have the STC-1000 controlling the fridge in the laundry and usually have no issues. However a very cold night saw the temp drop overnight, perhaps I need to get a heat pad or are you saying a fan moving the air would stop this happening? Or perhaps my money will be better spent on an aeration stone. I had read on here about others hitting high gravity beers with further oxygen at around the 24hr mark so was trying to replicate that although obviously now, as you point out, shaking at this stage won't achieve this as the headspace is all CO2.

Should I expect any adverse flavours from this relatively slower ferment?